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  »  New  Think Denk and op.106..  Op.9...  Musical Discussions  Forum     4  18058  11-29-2008
09-26-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 165
Reply to: 165
A stunning Beethoven’s “Emperor” Concerto.

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As anyone else I have developed my own ways to buy music. Beside any of my current interests, I, for instance, have some conductors who’s recording I buy no mater what: Scherchen, Golovanov, Barbirolli, Bohm.... Among pianists it would be probably the only one pianist whom I buy “on spot" if I do not have the given performance: Arturo Bendetti Michelangeli. I juts love whatever he did it I kind of think that I heard whatever he recorded… and I never was sorry…

Today I stopped by in a quite crapy second hand records store and suddenly I pulled out something that made me to laugh. It was Japanese released, “no label”-cheap, with crappy B/W jacket CD containing Michelangeli playing Beethoven’s  Piano Concerto #5 with… nope!… not with  Steinberg, Giulini or Freccia  but “live” with Sergiu Celibidache, but not with Swedish orchestra but with Paris Symphony Orchestra. This was not something just new for me but it was something very promising new. I droolingly paid those $6.99 and anticipating a HUGE THRILL walked out of the store.

It was it! The Michelangeli did it again! He and Celibidache did something very spectacular with this work! Celibidache actulay made the orchestra sound in the same way how Michelangeli naturally plays and all-together it worked absolutely splendid! I was listening it while was driving home in my car and… do you know that feeling when you do not really realize when a performance is over?

Anyhow, this is absolutely amassing live recording it is high recommended to get. Ironically, the quality of recording is very high as well. I do not know when It was recorded but I presume that somewhen in the beginning of the 70x…

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-09-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Antonio J.
Madrid, Spain
Posts 272
Joined on 08-16-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 193
Reply to: 165
Would you make a copy of it?

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Hi Romy,

Very interesting post. I love that concerto but I can hardly find here anything by Michelangeli and I don't think I ever find that version. Would you send me a copy of that CD?

10-09-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 3
Post ID: 194
Reply to: 165
With great pleasure

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Antonio,

Sure, why not. Send me an email with your address and I will send you a copy.

Rgs,
Romy


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-09-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Antonio J.
Madrid, Spain
Posts 272
Joined on 08-16-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 195
Reply to: 165
You're about receiving it
Many thanks Romy Stick out tongue
10-22-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Antonio J.
Madrid, Spain
Posts 272
Joined on 08-16-2004

Post #: 5
Post ID: 233
Reply to: 195
I received it today

Hi Cat,

Thank you so much, I've just received the disc and I'm about listening to it. It's been very kind of you.

Antonio

10-23-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Antonio J.
Madrid, Spain
Posts 272
Joined on 08-16-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 235
Reply to: 233
Re: I received it today

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Double thanks Romy, the recording is really wonderful and everything you said in your first post. It's like listening to Michelangeli playing the whole orchestra and getting the concerto coherent in time and energy. Probably the best version I've listened of the Emperor. Do you know of other renditions of this work worth the purchase?

Regards.

10-23-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 236
Reply to: 235
More on the "Emperor" Concerto....

 Antonio J. wrote:
Do you know of other renditions of this work worth the purchase?

This concerto is “lucky”, it well-performed and there are many good recordings. Some of my “honorable mentions” would be:

Michelangeli with anybody else – he recorded this work a half dozen times over a 1/4 century with many conductors – each of his performance worth to listen.

Backhaus with Hans-Scmidt-Isserstedt – they recorded and released this peace also many times, I do not remember which exactly vintage especially attracted my attention: it was long time ago, but it was very good, although it was slightly in the Backhaus’s style…

Gieseking 1944 with Rother and Berlin Radio Orchestra – a live broadcast played during the Berlin air-defense was fighting with the Russian bombers. Even if you take out the historical ingredient of this performance and to look only at the musical value then I still found it was very very interesting.

Horowitz with Reiner in 1951 - Horowitz  in end of the 40s begin of the 50s was in a spectacular shape and this performance is great. Of courses Mr. Beethoven in there was slightly dipped into the Horowitz’s sauce …. but ... why not if the result was good.

Schnabel with Sargent in 1933 – probably the most classical performance of this work

Serkin with Walter – they recorded it a few times –1941, 1943… I feel that after the War recording was the most interesting. It was in the end of the 40s…

Rgs,
The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-23-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Antonio J.
Madrid, Spain
Posts 272
Joined on 08-16-2004

Post #: 8
Post ID: 237
Reply to: 236
Re: More on the "Emperor" Concerto....
Thanks, I have some Serkin sonatas but none of the #5 by him. I like Beethoven very much, he is one of my favourite composers but I think it's not easy finding versions that bring up all the beauty and character he put into his music. What about your preferred Sonatas' renditions. I've been thinking about buying some "integrale" but I'm afraid of not getting a good one, some say Brendel, others Schnabel's, one friend recommended Gilels... perhaps it's wiser to get one rendition of every single sonata by the "adequate" player. I have some by Michelangeli, Serkin and Richter. The one I most enjoy is the Nr 7 by Michelangeli, it looks like we share the liking him. Some suggestions?
10-23-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 9
Post ID: 238
Reply to: 237
Beethoven’s sonatas

This is kind if totally separate subject:  the every single sonata by the "adequate" player.

Sometimes I feel in the same way and sometimes, in fact most of the time, I feel that when you get a large collection of those sonatas by a single pianist then it more obvious what he intended to do with a single sonata. However, I agree that there are some pianists that just “got” one single sonata without “getting the entire cycle or opposite: did the entire cycle mostly OK but some specific sonata were completely “wrong”.

The Beethoven’s sonatas are very none-unanimous and each person has own vision how they should be played. I personally do not have an absolutely “best” vision of “the version” but rather best 3-4 versions for each sonata. This probably because the Beethoven’s sonatas are so multifaceted and so divert that it is imposable to express within them a single combined quality.

Talking about the names - those guys would “do” to me now:

Czechoslovakian Ivan Moravic - for a very orthodoxical, conventional mood
Canadian Anton Kuerti - for none-conformistical and twisted mood
Austrian Paul Badura-Skoda – for slightly overly conservative but lash mood
Another Austrian Jörg Demus – for a luxury nerves twisting and soul teasing mood
Old (mono) recording of Austria-Hungarian :-) Rudolph Serkin – for “old” chromic sound and “balance”
Austrian Artur Schnabel – for the mischievous opportunity to find inconsistencies in a reference performance :-)

Defiantly there are many others who recorded just one or a few sonatas and did it phenomenal but the mentioned guys are something that I’m playing when I want to play the Beethoven’s sonatas

Rgs,
Romy the caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-24-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Antonio J.
Madrid, Spain
Posts 272
Joined on 08-16-2004

Post #: 10
Post ID: 239
Reply to: 238
Re: Beethoven’s sonatas

Thanks Romy, I'll have to do my homework, the only guys I know from your shortlist are Serkin and Schnabel, I probably prefer Serkin.

It looks like you don't especially like Gilels. Would you mind sharing why?

Regards,
AJ

10-24-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 11
Post ID: 240
Reply to: 239
Gilles and others...

Gilles is "fine". I always feel that his playing (whatever he played, not only Beethoven) was “too kept” or too straight, deSalted for my taste.  I remember I heard him playing a few sonatas a couple years back end although it was obviously a play of a great master but it was too pastel and did not impressed me. I would classify Gilles as my  “second chose”, along with all those Annie Fischers who are too much trying on the Beethoven's sonatas or the William Backhauses who sometime confused if they play jazz or polka…

However, my personal opinion should be worth zilch to you: I generally have “the issues” with that Richter-Gilles generation of "big" Russkies, so…. 

If you find the pianists that I pitched to you then share what you feel about them.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-24-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Antonio J.
Madrid, Spain
Posts 272
Joined on 08-16-2004

Post #: 12
Post ID: 241
Reply to: 240
Re: Gilles and others...

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I'll do Romy, thanks. Regarding your comments about other pieces and composers I find your opinion very interesting and quite close to my own taste, but it happens that you have much mooooooore exposure and experience on classical than me. I'm a newcomer to classical ;-)

Best regards,

AJ

12-15-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 258
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 13
Post ID: 395
Reply to: 238
Re: Barenboim Sonatas

Hi Romy,

I just received as a birthday gift the Barenboim set recorded with EMI in the late 60's. I don't have sufficient experience of the other performers/interpretations you mention to put this set into context. I listened to some Brendel sonatas recently and if anything found him a little stiff/mechanical after the Barenboim. Are these Barenboim recordings generally not liked and if so why not?

best regards,
Guy

12-15-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 14
Post ID: 396
Reply to: 395
Barenboim's ...

Guy, I do not know well Barenboim’s sonatas. I believe I heard one sonata on some kind of compilation disk, it was good - really good, but I do not remember anything further. I do not know if “Barenboim recordings generally not liked”. I can tell only about myself. His early stuff was interesting and very promising. Later on he slipped to “grayness”. Some people associate is with the Du Pre’s death or for whatever other reasons, I do not know. I still feel that he was better pianist thena conductor. Some of his conducting attempts, and particularly with Chicago were insultingly revolting – I have no idea why they even decided to release them! However, I do love and very much appreciate to listen Barenboim… when his talks.  His interviews and his thoughts about music are very attractive and they “sound” way better then whatever he plays/conducts. I actually gained a lot of respect to Barenboim after the story when he despite of the Israeli prohibition played a Beethoven recital for Arabic kids in Gaza and then the Moronic Israeli government threatened Barenboim to revoke his Israeli citizenship…

Rgs,
The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-22-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
dazzdax
Netherlands
Posts 32
Joined on 10-22-2005

Post #: 15
Post ID: 1542
Reply to: 238
Re: Beethoven’s sonatas

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What about Pollini's rendering of the late sonata's on Deutsche Grammophon? I think it is excellent.

Chris
05-26-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Antonio J.
Madrid, Spain
Posts 272
Joined on 08-16-2004

Post #: 16
Post ID: 10596
Reply to: 1542
Reviving an old thread
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I want to share with you that the CD that Romy found with the Michelangeli's performance of the Emperor with the Paris Orchestra and Celibidache is available at Music and Arts (scroll down to find the 2 Michelangeli CDs they have) with reference:
CD-4296
MICHELANGELI IN CONCERT -- BEETHOVEN: Piano Concerto No. 5, Paris Symphony Orchestra, Celibidache, 1975 (S) & HAYDN: Piano Concerto in D, Brescia Festival Orchestra, A. Orizio 1967 (M). UPC # 0-17685-42962-0

Don't miss it, it's a wonderful and quite unique performance.
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  »  New  Think Denk and op.106..  Op.9...  Musical Discussions  Forum     4  18058  11-29-2008
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