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03-01-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 13058
Reply to: 13058
An interesting Russian pnonocorrector.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Guys from a Russian audio site come up with an idea of MM corrector that I find very interesting, take a look – it is self-explanatory. The firs tube is Russian equivalent of 7788. The second is “my” 6E5P, though I would use 7721 – sounds better in output if no drive in required.

Russian_PhonoCorrector.jpg




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-02-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
cv
Derby, United Kingdom
Posts 173
Joined on 09-15-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 13062
Reply to: 13058
Novel MM corrector
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Romy
How very strange you mention this... Dave and Jeffrey have been working with a somewhat similar concept.

The design you have doesn't look right - it's missing a time constant; you need another cap there. Where did you find this schematic?
03-02-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 3
Post ID: 13063
Reply to: 13062
The kinky Russky phonostages
fiogf49gjkf0d

Nope, it does not miss anything. They offset the 75msec in input using the inductance of cartage’s coil (I quess they do not use MC). Below is the original thread. You need to  buy a chocolate cake and to do a foot massage to your Russian mistress to read it. In personaly I do not see a lot of useful written at this thread. I think the idea is well highlighted and the rest is secondary.

http://hiend.borda.ru/?1-7-0-00000010-000-10001-0

If I had any interests in phonostages then I would prototype the concept to see how it works. But what  is the point – the “End of the Life Phonostage” will blow it up anyhow… Again…

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-03-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
cv
Derby, United Kingdom
Posts 173
Joined on 09-15-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 13066
Reply to: 13063
Inductance cartidge equalisation what?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I don't see how the cartridge inductance is doing anything as far as that schematic goes.
There's another thing *very* wrong with it as well, but as you're not going to pursue it, we can leave it at that.
03-03-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 5
Post ID: 13067
Reply to: 13066
No claims about sonic advantages of this method.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 cv wrote:
I don't see how the cartridge inductance is doing anything as far as that schematic goes.
There's another thing *very* wrong with it as well, but as you're not going to pursue it, we can leave it at that.

Possible, I posted it more as an idea not as source for replication. In that site they claim that they built it “as is” and that work and measure fine. It is irrelevant what they claim, even thigh it might be true. The concept is still elegant and different and this is all that sounds. Sure there are no claims about sonic advantages of this way…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-03-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 13075
Reply to: 13058
The same corrector from the same site.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Russian_PhonoCorrector_2.jpg




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-04-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
cv
Derby, United Kingdom
Posts 173
Joined on 09-15-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 13076
Reply to: 13075
Corrected corrector...
fiogf49gjkf0d
That makes more sense, though I must admit, Dave corrected me regarding how the first scheme  might work (I had forgotten MM cartridges had such high inductances).
03-04-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 8
Post ID: 13078
Reply to: 13076
Why do not use this method on DSETs?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, I knew that you were not accurate with your assumption that MM cannot run 75mSec offset.I am not a big fun of this method as no sane person would use MM cartridges. However, what I find is very attractive in this phonocorrector is to employ SOME of those ideas for DSET applications and to filter DSET via plate voltages on driver of power stages. I do not care about the phonostages but I think for DSET it might open some room. You for instance would like to write a line level filter but you too hectic about keeping the grid impedances low and input impedance high. Here is an option of massaging the plate voltage…The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-04-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,148
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 9
Post ID: 13079
Reply to: 13076
Interesting in 2-D
fiogf49gjkf0d
This appears to put the internal values of its gain stages into play, which in turn appears to cut the signal path parts count, all right.  Since we are not given the (presumed "dedicated") cartridge H, did anyone run reverse numbers to see if this path also includes the tubes' Miller capacitance?

I forget which tubes they used as I post this, but how much does a design like this depend on the absolute stability of the gain stages, ie, how much slop is built in, or where would one go to tweak it without effing up turnover?

Overall, is there sufficient isolation here, or is there classic tank circuit co-dependency/bleed-through?

...put a DACT PS on that puppy...

Paul S
03-04-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
cv
Derby, United Kingdom
Posts 173
Joined on 09-15-2004

Post #: 10
Post ID: 13081
Reply to: 13079
Uber-tweeky phono topologies deconstructed
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hello Paul,
The first stage is a pentode, so the Miller cap is negligible. As for the other things you mentioned, there is a detailed exploration, which covers some of your points, by Dave Slagle at:

http://www.intactaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1026

I do highly recommend LTSpice (free download) for answering such engineering-type questions... plenty of tube-oriented info and fairly accurate tube models available from the above website. Takes a wee bit of time to setup but well worth it.

best,
cv
Page 1 of 1 (10 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  7788 tube mic pre design..  Read my leaps: Absorb-GEL...  Analog Playback Forum     38  252820  02-14-2006
  »  New  The LCR RIAA correctors..  Inductive RIAA link...  Analog Playback Forum     57  521203  07-11-2007
  »  New  The last phonocorrector: “End of Life" Phonostage..  Burn, motherf....r, burn!...  Analog Playback Forum     284  1242714  11-13-2007
  »  New  Another interesting corrector: Likhnitsky's RX correcto..  Again, the capacitors...  Analog Playback Forum     6  44787  02-10-2005
  »  New  Where are our good phonostages?..  Omnigon Tubes...  Analog Playback Forum     61  435126  05-31-2004
  »  New  Incorporating active crossovers into DSET..  Thanks...  Melquiades Amplifier  Forum     2  30058  07-22-2008
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