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  »  New  Audio and Music: four levels of unity and separation or..  Absolute and mandatory condition....  Playback Listening  Forum     9  64771  11-09-2004
  »  New  “How audio might sound”..  Re: Revealing Quality...  Playback Listening  Forum     8  44453  03-12-2005
  »  New  Playing music for visitors...  ...and sometimes it might be so deferent.......  Playback Listening  Forum     11  58862  01-27-2006
  »  New  High End Audio and musical content...  Design decisions for different music....  Playback Listening  Forum     8  49021  06-01-2006
  »  New  Can a ultimate playback system bring us True Lasting 'H..  Music blows, yes!...  Playback Listening  Forum     7  37643  12-09-2006
  »  New  Playback journeys and Music..  Audio form and content...  Playback Listening  Forum     1  13887  04-29-2007
  »  New  Music in the Sound: a moving target..  Like, Absolute Idealism and Stuff......  Playback Listening  Forum     8  39660  02-16-2008
  »  New  High-End Audio vs. High-End understanding...  High-End Audio vs. High-End understanding....  Playback Listening  Forum     0  9054  02-24-2011
  »  New  Just-Sound of Audio vs. Authored Sound Audio..  Tools...  Playback Listening  Forum     1  10691  01-25-2012
05-12-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 10502
Reply to: 10502
What I am doing?
fiogf49gjkf0d

A woman I met last weekend asked me a question: “What you do for own pleasure, Romy?” In response I ran with her my standard “talk to women” Feline Psychiatrist scenario but with all seriousness - the question how to name what I do is not so simple.

I kind of do audio but “doing audio”, despite that it takes considerable amount of my time and efforts, is NOT true the subject of my pleasure. I stated many times that if I had an opportunity to outsource all my audio needs to professionals, who were able to facilitate their services at the demanded level and to whom I might pay off their contribution into my objectives,  then I would gladly did it and never practice the Applied Audio in the format I do.  So, to me my entire journey into the word of those plate voltages, horns profiles, phase alignments, VTA adjustments, quality of detector diodes, bypass capacitors and sampling rater conversions is no more than building a cable car facility for a person who is willing to ski. So, what is my pleasure, and how to name what I do?

Shall the be answers be: I do music listening? Well, not really.

I always mentally differentiate my audio interests and my musical interests. I know many people would find it stupid and incorrect but they just sell to themselves the BS that they are willing to subscribe in order to feel themselves better, or in most cases: in order to keep the crap that they sale movable. In reality I feel that my musical interests, even though they have a lot of intersection with my audio interests, are truly separate domain of my awareness. I always use a visualization of me returning home and discovering that my home is burned to ground and only The Cat is wondering atop the of smoldering charcoals. Obviously my audio practice and audio interests would cease to exist then but would it have an impact to my musical interests? It would certainly not going to be an event for my musical interests with the exception of me develop even more interest in the ironic part of our lives. So, with all my fictional desire to present myself as some kind of “music devotee” , or as music servant who use the means of audio and  whose specialty and pleasures are just music listening, I clearly recognize that it would not be correct in my case.

What I answered to that woman was that I am a Collector. She asked a following question: what do I collect and I replied that she would not understand it.  She became bitchy and intrigued but I left “as is” as I did not feel that she was attractive enough to explain to her anything further.

If to insist in further explanations then it might become a bit intricate as the identification of the subjects/objects of my Collection is something that very much describes my interests. I am a Collector and I collect my perceptions of musical events. Musical events, as I recognize them, are not just musical performances, it is more. Musical events are in intricate melt of musical performances, historical circumstances, cultural references and zillion of other little things. However, there is more to it. The fact that a musical event worthy attention took place is not necessary is a sufficient condition to become an item of my Collection. I do not collect musical events but rather I collect my perception of those musical events. Here is where audio, as an expressive tool of my Collecting practice, comes to existence.

I have to admit that I am a selfish man and for me value of my perception is more vital than the value of the event itself. I am very much fascinated with my own mind’s ability to be genius or idiotic and the interpretive refractive divergences of my perception are very much valuable and in a way is entertaining to me. Here is where Audio becomes an instrument – audio is in a way a prism that accepts a raw musical event and path it through interpretively with a respect to how I would like to perceive this event.

I have to admit also that in many ways my demands for audio expressivity have a lot of to do with my creative egocentrism and my personalized collecting of musical events is my way to project my own artistic capacity to the magnitude of collective creativity of the people who came before me. In a way I vampirerize expressed musicality of others but at the same time I with my “audio-interpretive views” am engaged in a process of collaboration with composers and musicians. They have own tools of expressivity, I have mine. The collecting of recognitions of audio interpretation is what I do and how I define high-end audio. I do recognize the introvertual nature of my audio interests and have no problems with it. I do also recognize that I have very little interest in what other audio people do. It looks like they use amplifiers, speakers, cables, turntables, and other tools that I use but I do not feel any demanding discrimination or any higher sense of actions in the activities of most of audio people I know. So, “others” and me are basically practice very different “hobbies” and frankly I am very much annoyed by existence most of the “others”.

What is very interesting is that the actual practicing of my audio interests is not about soldering amps and crossovers, listening live or recorded music or learning about musical events. The true audio practicing of mine is about discovery and recognition within myself some enigmatic paradigms that have well-defined harmonic presentations and the facilitating my practical ability to manage those discoveries and recognitions…

Sure, it would be too complicated to explain all of it to a woman I met last weekend but it also too complicated to explain it to many audio Morons who practice audio for 35 years and do it for purely zombianic, semi-psychotic and unconsciousness reasons. I am sure that most of those who even read this post, since I did not make them to buy a new speaker, did not convince them to lower pate voltage and to did not insist to run a cartridge with sharper VTA, would not even consider my post as something that is audio-related. Well, did you see me to care?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-18-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Axel
South Africa
Posts 80
Joined on 07-18-2009

Post #: 2
Post ID: 11110
Reply to: 10502
What motivates to listen to music --- a lot?
fiogf49gjkf0d

? - purely zombianic, semi-psychotic and unconsciousness reasons, for the "Moron TM" ----a bit heavy all in all, hm.

? - expressivity having a lot of to do with creative egocentrism and personalized "collecting of musical events"
=> OK, here speaks a self-confessed collector, I guess.

! Now, how about just for the 'kick' of the sensuous experience, plain and simple?

Can I enjoy sex, with out 'collecting' experiences, just simply be in the moment?

Not easy I guess, since it is ‘insufficiently’ introverted (normally). But listening to music will allow just for that. Close your eyes and go with the flow.

B U T, if your system sounds ‘wrong’ it becomes just as ‘unfulfilling’ like bad sex, which is best avoided.

So, the main explanation for me is, that all this equipment ‘fiddling’ aught to lead to this MORE ‘transcending’ experience, to take you more completely out of your self, just like good sex would.

That is also an explanation why, when all comes together it is VERY hard to rationalize about the sound, resolution, detail, depth of stage, etc. etc. If all is well, MUSIC simply IS! No more no less.

If the experience of listening is right, it will suspend all rational reasoning for a least a short while, like good sex does also J . Just have to watch out it does not supplant it all together, I very real possibility with that ‘hobby’

07-18-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 3
Post ID: 11112
Reply to: 11110
Interesting, thankfully an engaging post.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Replying I have to say that I am a very intelligent person. No matter how much I am able to be flown with 'kick' during my sensuous experience and how far I might be drifted with flows I always try to rationalize and to learn the nature about my sensations. I do not know it care if it good or bad but I know that I do like it. Learning and discovering about myself it very fascinating and offers a lot. So, I have very little semi-psychotic and unconsciousness reasons. I have sub-consciously idiotic and deliberately foolish but they are hardly ever unconscious

Motivations to listening music? Wary, but I’m not one of those who claim that music is a some kind of summit of human experiences and quote those overly glorified comments about music. Music is one of the forms of humans’ expressivity. There are many form of humans’ expressivity, some of them more or less allegorical, symbolic or figurative and some of them more or less shaped in formal artistic form. I do no build a hierarchy over the humans’ expressivity and I like all of them that I am able to consume.  The humans’ expressivity and at very high level might be found very far from artistic environment as well.  Many years ago I was playing card with a “partner” against quite serious people and in a culmination of a very expensive game I was able to read a change of harmonics of my partner’s breathing, which allowed me to win. There was no cognitive messaged passed but the information was exchanged at the level of interpretive humans’ expressivity. A woman moving her hand across your body, can stop her hand and press it against you, passing enormous amount of expressivity. Do those experiences compete with structured artistic subliminal messages? I do not think so, thy rather all enrich each other…

Music as any other form of structured artistictism cares a promise of expressivity witnessing. Going to  a symphony hall, opening a book, going to a gallery or doing whatever else we do in a structured art are we are in away an enter an agreement: we promise to contribute our interpretive witnessing awareness and in exchange we are promised to experience humans’ expressivity. With music is it very interesting as music is easy to arrange collectively and interaction in real time with collective consciousness is possible.

Ok, where is audio sits in the view of it? Very much above of it.

I do not like dogs. They are domesticated; know the protocol of inner-human interaction and they use human awareness to live with humans. Cat on another hand do not give shit about human and they are absolutely not engaged in human “language” (I use word language wider then just speaking language), If you point somewhere to your dog then it will be looking at what you point. A Cat will look at your finger and she will not understand your intention.  From this perspective a Cat acts as an alien force that is not exposed to human “resonances”. Pretend that you have a horse and you drive it from you work to you home a half of your live. Eventually sit on your horse, say “home” and the horse would know where to go. Call it Pavlovian reflexes or whatever but it is a domestication  - a situation where an animal, or your friends, or your wife(s), or kid(s) read your intentions and accommodate the behavior accordingly. Cats do not do it. Now pretend that you ride from work not a horse but an automobile.  An automobile will certainly not read your nether expressed nor implied intention. Audio is very same…

Audio is stupid machinery that has no reference of feedback from to the humans’ expressivity. It will have as much awareness about humans’ expressivity as much you will make it to have. So, audio is a way a superstructure within which you might reflect you own expressivity, implement your own interpolation and your own understanding of the “load” of the musical even you try to reinstate by the means of your audio.

I know it might be difficult to a typical audio person to understand it - audio people mostly do not use audio as an expressive language but rather as a sonic dildo.  However, I found audio is very interesting expressive instrument as it, like Cats, free of any ego. Any exchange where human protocol involved inevitably gets converted into trading of zones of egotism (or altruism, which is the same). However, in audio, as in any other fields of human-machine interaction, Audio as a machine deals only with intentions, objectives and means. It is pretty much garbage in – garbage out… This is one of the reasons why we have so many horribly sounding playbacks in audio…..

This modulation of unconscious machines, enabling them to resonate in affinity with intentions of human expressiveness is my very favorite topic. It opens so much opportunities, raises so much predicament and mysteries! Do not be under impression that only audio people do it. Now I am reading a Katie Hafner’s book “A Romance on Three Legs”. It is a story about the “Glenn Gould's Obsessive Quest for the Perfect Piano”. Glenn did the same, he was looking for the best machine that would be able to render his intention, or in context of this thread it would be the best machine that would be able to best reflect the Gould's perception of those events.

In the signature of my posts I used the Friedrich Nietzsche’s comments that "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." In the 1883s Nietzsche switched from wring to typing and as a result his prose style changed. One of his critics told him that “thoughts in music and language often depend on the quality of pen and paper” and I think it is very the same in audio ….

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-19-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Axel
South Africa
Posts 80
Joined on 07-18-2009

Post #: 4
Post ID: 11120
Reply to: 11112
The soul in the machine?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Now, -- I don’t think if I may call myself a very intelligent person. Some would say so – B U T then there are others that would have it differently.
My spelling is not too good at times, and so some people would consider this to be a sign of lacking in intelligence. Some would say, I do not agree with them, yet another sign of lacking intelligence, since they hold themselves, and their opinions, and knowledge as a pretty good sign of their intelligence. THEN, there is such a thing (at least to some folks) like emotional-intelligence. Thank God, I have not yet learned to be emotionally un-intelligent.
 
Why this preamble? The subject's now: “The soul in the machine?” (or tool? if wish).
I think my brand of intelligence tells me that things that ‘have’ soul are better, more worthwhile to look at, listen too, touch, and feel.
So what about 'tool-things'? The piano was mentioned, then e.g. a beautifully made and crafted work tool, sharpened and honed with patience, attention to detail and CARE?
 
I think in Japanese culture it is maybe better understood, that you ‘impart’ soul into an object by putting YOUR care, attention, and very best into it, whether it’s a tea-cup, a samurai-sword, or what ever. But this ONLY happens if it receives your devoted, care and attention. In Western language we come close with the ‘uncorrupted’ meaning of quality. A lot of marketing has watered down the word quality, I hope you may know what I mean.
 
In my wood-workshop my tools have ‘soul’, I care and attend to them and get VERY sad (and upset) if some person only sees them for their mechanical shape and purpose ---- doesn’t feel or notice how much of MY soul I imparted in to them. Yet, they (the tools) like the cat, I guess, don’t give a dam - as little, as a carelessly attended road-bridge or one that is looked after.
 
So the result in the end lies within the beholder if something has soul or not. B U T, there is a very touching and noteworthy thing --- some people just get it, right there. But you have to be OPEN to receive the message, get ‘touched’ by that CARE and attention to detail that went into making that tea-cup, caring, setting up and tuning that piano, sharpening and setting that hand-plane so it cuts to perfection (your perfection!).
 
So is audio (the equipment) soul-less, is the cat soul-less --- my answer is a clear NO, as long as you CARE for it! In fact I KNOW that things, objects, can be absolutely soul-less, too much about of it these days. The plastic boom-box, the throw-away paper-cup, the mass produced TV-dinner, the throw-away sex, and any bought today – discarded tomorrow sort of stuff.
Why? :-) Who CARES?!  Exactly, unattended consumption junk, like use toilet-paper --- wipe yourself with it then flush it down the toilet. Then go buy another roll…
 
In closing, some say that taking drugs (coke, etc.) is a sign that you have just too much cash, at least at some stage…
Maybe having too much audio equipment-‘drugs’ could fall into the same category?
It is very difficult to care for stuff that is not used, appreciated, just sits around and is not much taken CARE, of to have any soul ---- it turns back into what it looks like only --- just a pile of wires, tubes, rotors and motors, etc. No good getting much into the music with soul-less, uncared for, dead stuff –isn’t it?
 
There are of course collectors that totally care for their collection, like 'kiss it good-night' every day :-)  I’m NOT talking about that, since a beautifully cared for e.g. picture collection will be beautiful, touching, and soulful (at least in my experience).

Greetings,
07-19-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 5
Post ID: 11124
Reply to: 11120
There is no such a thing as soul of machines.
fiogf49gjkf0d

First, you miss a reference to the phase “I am a very intelligent person”. It was the Melvin Udall’s quote from “As good as it gets”, not that I do not have meaning behind it but the meaning is bit more elusive then it is on surface.

However, the main point in following: if you pay attention I hardly ever use the phrase “soul” in reference to playback. In fact I do not like when others do it as to use soul allegories in reference to machinery is a white flag of intelligence in my view. It reminds me the audio people use word “synergy”

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=6464#6464

– when  people have no idea what they are taking about then they begin to grand to machine human qualities, label them soul and dive into semi-religions awareness of reality. There is nothing wrong with a semi-religions awareness of reality… until you need to build bridges, hit the right piano key at the right time, wind the cartridge coils or to time-align drivers.

Yes, perception is the Reality but creativity operates by atomic noumenonal categories, arranges them in order to stricture the desirable perceptions.  Therefore I do not think that it makes any sense to talk about the “soul in the machine”. In those conversations where “soul of machinery“ involved I see just a celebration of epistolary over common sense…. and I feel myself too intelligent to be enrolled in them.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-19-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Axel
South Africa
Posts 80
Joined on 07-18-2009

Post #: 6
Post ID: 11126
Reply to: 11124
'Soul', caring and audio-tools...
fiogf49gjkf0d
Ok, so you do not like 'soul' that you as the 'creator' have put into an object, that you happen to make what it is. -
I guess that's not quite so fine by me, kind of stone-cold :-(
Why would I CARE for a bunch of wires and a lump of metal, I ask?
 Why bother to look after anything? As I said, wipe yourself with it then, through it out, and keep the economy going.
This got zilch to do with semi-religion, it has to do with living and caring about anything.
Is a 'un-caring' cat just a bag of bones and flesh? Well, not in my vocabulary of reciprocity. You don't care for things,
they don't give a dang about you either.
Don't care to replace that cap or resistor? Well, guess what you get --- crappie sound, actually very simple it is.
NOTHING at all about religion in this, just a fact of life's reciprocity.
Don't care for my tools? Guess what, Nietzsche told you, didn't he?
In my simpler words: Crappy tools make crappy objects, writing, what ever, yes?
Now, if I want to pray, I go to some place other than a music hall, and most of all not to any audio-convention,
because I guess, as you --- I'm allergic to marketing inspired religion of ANY kind :-)
Greetings,
07-19-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Axel
South Africa
Posts 80
Joined on 07-18-2009

Post #: 7
Post ID: 11127
Reply to: 11126
Replying I have to say that I am a very intelligent person
fiogf49gjkf0d
"I have to say that I am a very intelligent person..."
Next time like so, in case it is being read by some not so intelligent person.
I actually have read that book, but obviously far too long ago.
This dude suffered most everything that can go wrong... oh well.
07-20-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 8
Post ID: 11137
Reply to: 11126
And the point of it is…. ?
fiogf49gjkf0d
In terms of playbacks there is no “soul” and we are juts the “creators”. When you adjust a VTA of your tonearm you do not increase/decrease the amount of “soul” but just change the angle under which your needle attacks record and by this you moderate some well-defile auditable characteristics. I’m a very pragmatic man and any waxing of “philosophy” or any other semantic BS shall have tangibles meaning for me and manifest itself ether in practical accomplishes on in sensible experiences. I understand what you are saying but I am falling to get what is your point.

The Cat
 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-20-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Axel
South Africa
Posts 80
Joined on 07-18-2009

Post #: 9
Post ID: 11139
Reply to: 11137
The point of it...
fiogf49gjkf0d

is, that we ARE the creators as you say --- of EVERYTHING we perceive and therefore what we think also. You are what you think.
So if you do not create a difference between something soul-less and something having soul then you just have not created that difference for yourself.
 
You talk of audio-levels of perception from the 'Moron TM' to some transcendental perception of listening at level 4. That is what you created also, that’s all there is to it
and some, maybe many, might create this then also for themselves.

I do not know if in your world of the 'pragmatic' something like soul even exists, or can exist. The American Indians speak to the ghost of their ancestors, mathematician to their irrational numbers, you wax on audio-levels, and the next guy might talk to his transistor radio.
I think all it does, it fill our world with some quality of meaning, actually quite simple. A dog regards his master, an audio-nut his hi-fi because it adds MEANING to the individual.

If I disregard my appreciation for some care-fully crafted and looked after thing, i.e. disregard the soul expressed to ME by it, I feel impoverish, made the poorer for it. The smile of a child, the beauty of a flower, the look of a cat, if one is receptive to it, have this quality at the most basic level, and some beautiful architecture or even equipment can posses it too.
 
Items can also become the opposite i.e. soul-less, it is the case practically with EVERY mass-produced item, and maybe because this can not truly harken back to one creator with his purpose behind it. Mass-produced stuff is usually corrupted in this sense. However, if it is re-engineered, modded, improved, changed, it once again starts to take on a different soul/identity. Like R. Pirsig's motorcycle, in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". I think he called it the GHOST in the machine.

Now if all this appears to be just airy-fairy BS to you, -- mind you, then all of your own mental pursuits that you  create on this site would fall into the same category. All you are busy with are then just your own selected ghosts. And let me hasten to say it is FULL of those. I and I guess most contributors are just going with the paw-waw and feel no need to prove that these ghost do not exist. Reviewer of course are not to happy with all of this, as they generally see no 'good medicine' in it at all.

07-20-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 10
Post ID: 11140
Reply to: 11139
Do I smell the rotten stench of the esoteric schizophrenia?
fiogf49gjkf0d
As I said I do not use phrases “soul” of “soul-less”. Perhaps I have enough grip of it in audio and do not need to trade “soul” in place of plate currents or polarity of cables.  Sure, we all chaise the self-selected ghosts regardless what we do. It is not a secret that life is what we sell to ourselves, so what? I still insist that it shall be some tangible points of reference - some kind of a frame upon which the BS of an imaginary really (or the Reality) is based upon.  In context of audio besides all those brave conversations it shall be a practical rendering of all words in a very material and witnessable audio results where the level of the result’s objective has some correlation with literature that a person  speed around own audio “word waxing”. I hope that whatever you say is synchronized with whatever you do. 

 I am comfortable in my correlation between my “literature” and my actual results, but you will not see me trying too to convince others in anything. Whatever I do in audio  I do explicitly for sake of self-gratification, if you disagree with what I do/think then it is fine and I wish your own views be gratifying in respect what you do and what your objectives are. I do not see audio as a big tent and I viciously oppose anybody see it this way. I also do not like when people abuse or mistreat what they do not understand, if you know what I mean.

I do not know anything about motorcycles but I am very sure that if you have one and if you do maintenance at a reasonable level of understanding then it will be no ghosts in there, no seven lit candles around a carburetor and no sacrifice of a chicken before changing spark plugs. If you do not mind then can you drop the incline toward the esoteric BS from your posts?   I knew too many people who practiced it and I know where this impotence derives from in order do not consider it as related to the subject of this site: “advanced audio and evolved music reproduction techniques”.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-21-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Axel
South Africa
Posts 80
Joined on 07-18-2009

Post #: 11
Post ID: 11142
Reply to: 11140
Do you like Nietzsche?
fiogf49gjkf0d

you have put one of his quotes under your post, so I guess you do.
Despite not being inclined to take much note of anything other then your own 'philosophy', (which is fine), at least in this case you seem to do go with someone else.
Nietzsche had as one of his main themes: "Der Wille zur Macht" which you practice most openly, and in most everything you express. 
Sir Allen, and 'The Apprentice' comes to mind.
As you are a self-confessed "very intelligent person" you will know all about that bit.
You had started this semi-philosophical inquiry and you may end it.
It is being sucked into a more confrontational direction, so will be of little contribution other then to establish of who is the 'main dog' in his domain.
I would agree, it is much more value added to talk about the more usual, that is being chewed over at most of the other audio sites.
It is one of the main domains of this site after all, i.e. no need for the "rotten stench of the esoteric schizophrenia".
By the way, if you'd bother to look up my system posted in A'gone you would notice that my humble set-up is very far from anything esoteric in deed.
There is no for any audio-esoteric-schizophrenia, at least not for me.
I can even understand your powerful dislike about it, which I actually share!

07-21-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 12
Post ID: 11143
Reply to: 11142
Nietzsche and Carnauba Waxes
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Axel wrote:
…  you have put one of his quotes under your post, so I guess you do. Despite not being inclined to take much note of anything other then your own 'philosophy', (which is fine), at least in this case you seem to do go with someone else. Nietzsche had as one of his main themes: "Der Wille zur Macht" which you practice most openly, and in most everything you express. As you are a self-confessed "very intelligent person" you will know all about that bit.

Nope, I do not care about Nietzsche. I put his quote as that particularly even I found was very demonstrable in the file that I advocate. There is nothing more or less. BTW, in definition of intelligent person does not imply to “know” about Nietzsches but rather be able to know where Nietzsches stand by recomposing the Nietzsches’ view…
 Axel wrote:
You had started this semi-philosophical inquiry and you may end it.
It is being sucked into a more confrontational direction, so will be of little contribution other then to establish of who is the 'main dog' in his domain.

There are no semi-philosophical inquires. What I state has very practical meaning for me and if I express whatever I express in abstract and symbolized fashion then it does not make it “philosophical”. Also, my intent has absolutely no K9 intentions. Any post/expression might or might not benefit the subject of the thread/interest. Make up your mind what you trying to say and make your own judgment how contributive your expressed views to the subject of the thread.

 Axel wrote:
By the way, if you'd bother to look up my system posted in A'gone you would notice that my humble set-up is very far from anything esoteric in deed.

Axel, I do not do it. I have absolutely no curiosity for looking up anybody systems if I have no specific context of interest.  So, far you did not express any explicit audio references that would require looking up the specifics of you audio installation.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-22-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
manisandher
London
Posts 156
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #: 13
Post ID: 11146
Reply to: 11142
Sir Who?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Axel wrote:
Sir Allen, and 'The Apprentice' comes to mind.

I'm not sure if many Americans would know who Sir Alan Sugar is. Donald Trump would have been a better bet.

FWIW, I had the dubious pleasure of taking part in the UK show a few years ago (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeHpU4mhVS0). As for Sir Alan... well I'm sure he believes himself to be 'very intelligent' too... belligerent certainly.

Mani.
07-22-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Axel
South Africa
Posts 80
Joined on 07-18-2009

Post #: 14
Post ID: 11147
Reply to: 11146
Thanks for correcting, Sir Allen = 'Sir Alan Sugar'
fiogf49gjkf0d
I would have thought 'Donald T.' somewhat more benign a character, he can actually smile! 
And so 'Sir Alan' might as yet get a bit more exposure to the US public, people like that I guess.
As for the rest of this thread "...fired!"
07-22-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 15
Post ID: 11148
Reply to: 11147
Another day on-line....
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Axel wrote:
As for the rest of this thread "...fired!"

I think that only thing that you are entitled to do is to fire your from this thread. The questing is: would the essence of the initial post and the sentiments that were expressed in the initial post be changed if you were in the thread or not? It was not the question that requires an answer…  Anyhow, your selfevident semi-healthy inters to my personality is unquestionably something that I “tremendously” values but I wish you had more interest to the subject of “ceremonial audio”. Well, I guess to would be too much to ask…

Rgs, Romy


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-23-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Axel
South Africa
Posts 80
Joined on 07-18-2009

Post #: 16
Post ID: 11153
Reply to: 11148
What am I (Axel) doing?
fiogf49gjkf0d
so, since I   so, since I could not as yet, get myself fired from this thread, and what was actually meant by my comment (…fired!), let’s see if we can get back into the subject. 
 
I obviously also listen to music, and I also deal with the mechanics/electronics of it.
(I’m a mechanical trained engineer, therefore somewhat electronically inferior or challenged, I know)
 
I also think, the one past-time only intersects with the other and is not to be confused as to be the same --- B U T, if the second thing (the mechanic etc.) is not reasonably sorted, the first does not work for me at all.
 
Having to listen to ‘music’ (if you could still call it that) on a system that emanates sound only with out actually ‘making’ some music is like torture to me, and I am forced to leave the venue. I know this can be pretty upsetting to some ‘sound only’ creators, but I will have to suffer the ‘creator’s’ rejection, since the torture is a lot worse to me then his rejection.
 
Now, why is it that so many people have no problem in this regard? Maybe it’s just genetics, and a certain lack of caring, followed by the moronic comfort of being blasted by sound mainly?
 
So now genetics, and then 'moronic' came up (one of the Cat’s favoured assessments).
 
Back to music, I like listening to e.g. Mozart, Beethoven, Bartok, …
These, and yet some others are (at least by some experts) considered having been  ‘autistic’ (there are levels!) and in this context having had ‘savantism’ I nicer word for being ‘idiot savants’.
 
Ok, idiots are noted for IQ below 20, Imbecile 20-49 IQ,  Moron (the ‘Cats’ favourite) 50-69 IQ with mental age of about 8 to 12 years.
 
All that is interesting in this context, is that some VERY gifted people can be idiotic all at the same time. And it shows in their interaction with others being made very difficult, and also maybe due to them BEING extremely gifted.
 
Look at the three composers I mentioned. ALL of them died reasonably early, Mozart taking the lead, Beethoven decided to go deaf (I guess he got so fed up listing to all those other Morons), Bartok decided this world was not for him either, and died pretty early also.
 
Yet their gifted music still fascinates, a lot of us, today.
 
Next, why am I posting on a site of what could turn out yet some other ‘idiot savant’? Because gifted ‘idiotic’ people ARE fascinating, never mind them being practically always abusive because they have such a hard time suffering Morons (as they would have it) in their surroundings. That’s why they prefer animals mostly to humans as animals do not even attempt to pretend having any intelligence.
 
So what do I do? Try to constantly follow my curiosity driven nature, in music, making objects, often related to audio, find stimulation in subjects of interest to ME.
So in that sense I am also a very selfish person. I get altruistic (same thing really, as the Cat noted) in helping people or making them feel good (sometimes only) because I derive a very selfish pleasure from it.
However, it is NOT in any way giving me pleasure to make people feel shit, simply because I do not derive pleasure from this, and not because I am a very nice individual.
 
Now, if I had mentioned all of this to a woman that asked me “what are you doing?” only some soul-mate type of female would have listened to it all. Most women in my experience ask such a question, simply to get an idea of you ‘economic value’ and not about your state of mind. In this sense the are like cats, if their's no ‘food’ there is no natural interest.
 
And now I’ll go back and listen to Bartok‘s ‘Concert for Orchestra’ by Seiji Ozawa and the CSO (on Angel Stereo SFO-36035) and very nice I think.
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