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  »  New  Make your own horns?..  I have no wet dreams about horns…...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     1  20236  01-22-2008
  »  New  Denouncing of idea of Bass Horns...  Denouncing of idea of Bass Horns....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  19971  04-15-2008
05-30-2005 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,584
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 1046
Reply to: 1046
Why horn-loaded loudspeakers are bad.

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I have a lot of places within my site where I, in one or other way, spread propaganda about horn-loaded loudspeakers. Frankly speaking, if I were an “ordinary audiophile” then I would look at the Romy the Cat’s exuberance about horns and perceive it as a typical preoccupation of an audio-Moron about something the he have happened to have in his room - I perfectly understand the sentiments of that vision. The problem is that an “ordinary audiophile” has no knowledge and NO EXPERIENCE with a properly bult horn-loaded installation and therefore for the horns there is no entry points into the “ordinary audiophile awareness”.

There are no seriously performing commercially available horn-loaded loudspeakers, period.  Even in you go for the outragesly expensive systems or for the outragesly vintage systems then they all have severe problems and they all were NOT PROPERLY DESIGNED AND IMPLEMENTED. I know ALL commercially manufactured models and I can testify that by auditioning them you expose to very remote result from what it might be.

The home-bult horn systems are also very-very pitiable. The low sensibility of the DIYers, thier severely primitive reference points, lacking of suitable public knowledge about horns practice, shortage really useful and well performing components, severe ignorance/insufficiency of horn-vendors, absents of serious collaborative horn- framework and many other factors created a satiation where DIYers bult completely foolish, pitifully performing systems, replicating each other misstates and archiving very poor Sound.

There are very few people out there (I would VERY optimistically estimate a couple/few-dozens around the world) who have sensibility, knowledge, recourses, seriousness of objectives and who brings horn insulations at the point where the performance of the systems can actually indicate the REAL capacity of the horns. However, usually those people do not associated with the crowd of the “ordinary audiophiles” and therefore the “ordinary audiophiles” or the industry freaks never had a chance to the experience to the REAL horn sound.

So, when the “ordinary audio people” or the industry’s hoodlums express thier attitude toward to the “horn universe” then I perfectly understand their “evidences” and reasoning.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-11-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
slowmotion


Oslo, Norway
Posts 60
Joined on 07-22-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 1062
Reply to: 1046
Re: Why horn-loaded loudspeakers are bad.

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 Romy the Cat wrote:
So, when the “ordinary audio people” or the industry’s hoodlums express thier attitude toward to the “horn universe” then I perfectly understand their “evidences” and reasoning.


I would not pretend to know much about horns,
but when we are talking about horns for home use
I have to agree with that statement.
I would even go further than that.
IMHO very few people, even those that do, know much
about how to make horns really work in the living room.
I don't either....

I'm an ass, I know....

06-12-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,584
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 3
Post ID: 1063
Reply to: 1062
It is not about horns but about people.

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You are very much correct. All existing critical mass of knowledge and practices about hors is completely irrelevant for a home use and partially if user’s demands are more evolved then a typically-Moronic: “look the saxophone sounds like the real one”. I’ve written about it many times: whatever the Morons know, or believe that they know, about horn has to do ONLY with the propagation of pressure and has a little to do with the actual sound. Most of the horn guys do not bult sound but rather they pursue the sounds at high sensitively…

That is why I very rarely can seriously to talk about horns with people, even if then believe that they do horns for 30 years. For instance go to see those retarded at the cretin’s Todd W. White’s Altec forum, to the AA’s High Efficiency community or to the countless other places where the horns-related idiots exchange thier pathetic and see the level of this interests not to mention the level of this accomplishment. What they depict are not the horns but this own primitivism regarding … whatever they touch in audio.

BTW, here is one of the reason why no one vintage horns sounds well, or at least as good as it could sound: those guys bult thier pressure system with very little musical and sonic objectives.

Rgs,
The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-14-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
slowmotion


Oslo, Norway
Posts 60
Joined on 07-22-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 1071
Reply to: 1063
Re: I'm still an ass...


..for being so negative.

 Romy the Cat wrote:

It is not about horns but about people.


There are people working on this around the world,
and there are a lot of progress made...
A lot of people with the "right" attidute...

But there is also a long way to go...


cheers,

Jan
06-14-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,584
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 5
Post ID: 1072
Reply to: 1071
I disagree. Surprise?

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Actually, I very much disagree.

Whatever “people working on this around the world” … they work on very irrelevant directions. I did not see from ANYONE in the horn universe any more or less serious attempts or serious intentions to combine the benefits that horns MIGHT do with the intentional and targeted desire to say something by the means of an installation. I have seen the installations-statements and the systems- statements but there were the audio statements and frankly speaking they were very unfortunate even audio-result-wise. I did not see/hear any horn installations, or even attempts, from the owners of the system to demonstrate something more then juts to fight with the typical audio problems. To listen thier systems is like to read a novel written with a language of a BMW’s user manual. I did not see people who “do horns” and witch whom is possible to talk about Sound. Not about the Sounds but about Sound as a psychico-physical or a spiritual force, not to mention to talk with them about the intentional managing of this force via the horn/systems manipulations. Most of the horn people are just as bored as the “direct radiator people” and I do not thinks that “people are working on this around the world” would bring any optimism in my vision.

Rgs,
Romy


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-15-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
slowmotion


Oslo, Norway
Posts 60
Joined on 07-22-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 1073
Reply to: 1072
Re: Surprise? Not really...

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 Romy the Cat wrote:
Actually, I very much disagree.


Yes , I understand that, Romy.
That's no surprise Wink


Whatever “people working on this around the world” … they work on very irrelevant directions. I did not see from ANYONE in the horn universe any more or less serious attempts or serious intentions to combine the benefits that horns MIGHT do with the intentional and targeted desire to say something by the means of an installation.


But I have. Not perfect by any means, but small steps in the right direction, with the potentional to go a long way.
This is not system dependent, but attitude dependent.
And the potential this attitude brings forth is the important thing here, I think.


...... To listen thier systems is like to read a novel written with a language of a BMW’s user manual.


Heheh, that's very well put. Good one, Romy


I did not see people who “do horns” and witch whom is possible to talk about Sound. Not about the Sounds but about Sound as a psychico-physical or a spiritual force....


Yes, I understand what you mean.
They are out there, though.
However , some of them have probably given up visiting the usual
audio forums, or they mostly keep silent, because nobody understand what they are talking about anyway.


Rgs,Romy


cheers ,
Jan
06-15-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rdrysdale
Anaheim, Calif
Posts 19
Joined on 04-24-2005

Post #: 7
Post ID: 1075
Reply to: 1072
Re: I disagree. Surprise?

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Romy
     I think for many people it's not even possible to reach a level of musical spiritual force. I've talked to Dr. Edgar at length about this, he and I believe that to have this feeling about music, one needs to be exposed at a very early age. My mother played a musical instrument, she played for my brother and I from the time we were babies. I remember that was our favorite entertainment on rainy days when we couldn't go outside. Later on we always had a record player, or my aunts Victrola to play with. Music has been with me my whole life. A few years ago I was able to see Yo Yo Ma play Bach's cello concerto in a very small theater, I actually had dreams about this performance months before it took place.
     So many people today are interested in audio only to make money, or for show, or as one of their many passing hobbies. Horns are not even remotely related to anything mainstream audiophile, so we are on our own. The research and development of a proper horn system was basically stopped many years ago, at that time the reasearch was only in it's infancy, and there is much to be discovered.
Rich
06-18-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
slowmotion


Oslo, Norway
Posts 60
Joined on 07-22-2004

Post #: 8
Post ID: 1087
Reply to: 1075
Re: I disagree. Surprise?

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Hi Rich, Romy, all


 rdrysdale wrote:
Romy ,
I think for many people it's not even possible to reach a level of musical spiritual force. I've talked to Dr. Edgar at length about this,he and I believe that to have this feeling about music, one needs to be exposed at a very early age.


Hmmm, if this is true, it is very distressing.
I could be some truth to this, tho.
As I have written here before, the first music I can remember as a small child was opera. My mother , brother, sister and myself all played different instruments. So living a life without music is not really an option.
It could be that this is one of the reasons that I react to music in a different way than some "audiophile" friends of mine.



So many people today are interested in audio only to make money, or for show, or as one of their many passing hobbies. Horns are not even remotely related to anything mainstream audiophile, so we are on our own. The research and development of a proper horn system was basically stopped many years ago, at that time the reasearch was only in it's infancy, and there is much to be discovered.
Rich


True. Much to rediscover and develop further.

cheers, Jan
06-20-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 258
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 9
Post ID: 1094
Reply to: 1087
the converse can also be true

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"So many people today are interested in audio only to make money, or for show, or as one of their many passing hobbies"


I occasionally go to the meetings of a recorded music society. A group of maybe 50 mainly older (50+) people gather in one of the larger rooms at a local hotel and listen to a themed programme of music presented by a guest speaker (who may be one of the members.) These societies are quite popular across the UK.

Speaking to those who attend, it soon becomes apparent that while these people are both knowlegeable and passionate about music, they are not really concerned about audio. Few use even modest 'separates' systems. Occasionally there will be someone who bought a Quad system back in the 60's or 70's and who has seen/heard little reason to change it but most listen on japanese rack or midi systems and are quite happy with them.

There is no doubt that these people also listen to, and have an involvement with, music in quite a different way to most 'audiophiles.'

best regards,

Guy
06-20-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
slowmotion


Oslo, Norway
Posts 60
Joined on 07-22-2004

Post #: 10
Post ID: 1095
Reply to: 1094
Re: the converse can also be true
Hi

Well, there is an unfortunate fact that most music lovers and musicians listen to different aspects of the music than most "audiophiles".

But both the "music-lovers" and the "audiophiles" are in fact lucky, they are probably reasonably content in their respective camps.

However there is a largish middlefield where the unlucky bastards reside, the poor sods who want their indispensable music served on good audiosystems.

cheers, Jan






Page 1 of 1 (10 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Compression drivers saga..  Wet compression drivers dream....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  35419  04-16-2005
  »  New  Some conical horns anti-propaganda..  More conical anti-propaganda...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     1  31299  04-21-2006
  »  New  Earl Geddes: Horny Book..  Horns, Earl, bottomeaters Sound and confidence of ignor...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     10  92091  07-19-2006
  »  New  The most appalling audio types...  The most appalling audio types: personally over-vested...  Audio Discussions  Forum     10  90054  06-15-2007
  »  New  Looking at the pictures of playback installations...  Come on, teasers!...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     3  25865  07-17-2007
  »  New  Why I hate HornResp...  It is exactly where the HornResp sucks....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     3  39853  10-02-2007
  »  New  Make your own horns?..  I have no wet dreams about horns…...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     1  20236  01-22-2008
  »  New  Denouncing of idea of Bass Horns...  Denouncing of idea of Bass Horns....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  19971  04-15-2008
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