| Search | Login/Register
   Home » Analog Playback» I need a “second-type” phonostage. (39 posts, 2 pages)
  Print Thread | 1st Post |  
Page 2 of 2 (39 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Where are our good phonostages?..  Omnigon Tubes...  Analog Playback Forum     61  638434  05-31-2004
05-23-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 26
Post ID: 4440
Reply to: 2453
I bought the “second-type” phonostage. Well, sort of....

OK, I did it. I bought the “second-type” phonostage.

As many of you know I do not reconnect the cables and my first “reference” phonostages is custom made 2-845PT with Expressive SU2 transformer practically hard-bund with my reference arm and my reference MC cartridge. My mono “reference” phonostages is “Aulasaulalaraula” – the  two stager around 7788-7721 with air caps – a phenomenal performer and I would like to keep it as it, thanks Got it’s 66dB of gain is perfect for 3mV out of SPU Mono.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/LatestPosts.aspx?ThreadID=41

So, I need a second stereo phonostages for the rest of my arms. I have borrowed some and liked none of them.  I have a very specific requirement to it including the very specific shape and the location of the input outputs – it is the only shape that I might fit in my rack. So, between the shape, performance and very limited amount of blood I was wiling to invest in the project I have seen nothing that make me satisfied.

Eventually six month ago I desisted to make one more “Aulasaulalaraula” correct and do not sacrifice for anything. I was searching the ways to get 10 more db from the “Aulasaulalaraula”, probably I will be able to get 3more db… Still, I relay hare those DIY crap and was looking some incentives or help to render the project that is being on hold for a while.

Well, I am wiling to inform you that I got the incentives – I have bought my dream “second-type” phonostage. (The picture is below). The real-estate wise it is absolutely EXACTLY what I was looking for. The layout of the chasses is perfection to my objective as well, each single hole exactly where I need it to be. It is Chinese-made MC/MM phonostages, I have no idea about the phonostage’s name or performances – I bought it explicitly because it is the “ready to go chassis” where I will put my Aulasaulalaraula phonostage.

The last question would be how much this case cost? Ironically it cost less then the money I usually pay for my custom enclosures. The price for this Chinese phonostages is $170, I hardly believe it could be beaten…




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-23-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,571
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 27
Post ID: 4441
Reply to: 4440
Well, I hope you will at least listen to it...
before you gut it.

How funny would it be if it turned out to be any good, or even not bad?

Since they all seem to need endless hours of tweaking, who knows, maybe you've got something here.

In any case, the chassis looks quite solid, and the industrial engineering is pretty nice, too.

I'll say a few words about my MM-only K&K if I ever get it tuned and integrated (and if I ever get the same performance twice in a row...).

Best regards,
Paul S
05-24-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 260
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 28
Post ID: 4442
Reply to: 4441
chassis

it might be tricky for this (as it is) to work well as a phono stage!  It also seems rather involved for a line stage too. (too much gain?) The chassis does look substantial though.  Presumably the valves are pcb mounted inside? What will you do, make a subchassis to replace the pcb & put your phono stage onto that?

There are several far east based suppliers of metal chassis that can be bought as 'one off's' from ebay shops now.

 

05-24-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 260
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 29
Post ID: 4443
Reply to: 4442
oops
apologies, didn't see the sockets in the other end! I have seen chinese linestages that have this many tubes.  Be interesting to learn how well it works as is.
05-24-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 30
Post ID: 4444
Reply to: 4441
Of course I will give some listening to this thing

 Paul S wrote:
How funny would it be if it turned out to be any good, or even not bad?

Of course I will give some listening to this thing. They claim 65dB gain on 12AX7 and 12AU7 and 84dB noise. I do not know how true it will be. Who knows…. This would be very nice of this thing turn out to sound well and adding to it a 10-15 db transformer would resolve all my needs. I doubt that it will sound OK, though I have very limited experience with Chinese hi-hi.  Still, for $170 – how bad should it be? I paid juts for the 3 custom boxes of my 834PT $270….

BTW, the sad irony but the well performing phonostages should not cost a lot. That entire BS that the Industry and their writing idiots invented around phonostages is very bogus. A phonostages is a filter with a buffer – how complex should it be?!!! A RIAA stage for a full function preamp should not be more then $500 and a full-functional phonocorrector should no more then $1000-$1500. There is nothing in 60dB MM phonocorrector complex or expensive to be making them expensive. To build any 2 stage or 2 stage + follower corrector is sub $100 task… What the people do when they trying to push $10K or $20K phonocorrector? They do not necessary sound better.... Anyhow it is depressing irony that playing my reference arm of my quite OK performing analog setup I use a RIAA that coasted me even less then the set of boxed for it.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-24-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,571
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 31
Post ID: 4445
Reply to: 4444
The price of excellence
I am with you on this one.  I am also very suspicious of gigantic, 4-chassis phono stages if only because I just wonder why the need for all those damn noisy parts, along with concommitment connections?

So it really pisses me off to admit that the "best" phono stage I have heard is probably the Boulder, which costs more than most cars!  I suppose it's common knowledge that the Boulder uses ultra-spec op amps, just like the ($$$$!) Palcette "Active" buffer amps; but then, so does that little English jobbie, "The Goof", or whatever they call it.

Otherwise, I find that it's always a matter of choosing my problems versus available strengths, and then just plugging away at it, just like most of my other components, so why over pay going in?

I don't entirely trust my aural memory, but I will make the offhand observation that - other than that stupid Boulder - I have not heard any real "improvements" in phono stages since the first Berning pre/phono hybrid.  Not that it matters, but this one typically had +/- .25 dB RIAA, and I can't help but wonder why others seem to have so much trouble with this.

I have looked at and wondered about the DACT, along with its super-quiet power supplies, whether it could be tweaked into something usable.  It is quite small, that's for sure, and not too expensive.

IMO, "high end" phono stages are right up there with "high end" cables, running neck and neck for the most ridiculous claims and pricing vs actual cost.  But then, most of the audio "manufacturers" these days are primarily marketing agencies, anyway.

I am currently trying the K&K, which at least keeps the cost down by no ads/direct selling from the actual designer/manufacturer.

Generally, I can't think of another place in audio where one can so consistently pay more and get less.

Best regards,
Paul S
07-26-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 32
Post ID: 4818
Reply to: 4440
The phonostage in Hunan style.

It'll is truly entertaining. I received today this Chinese phonostage, which turned out has a name, a box, a manual and believe you or not but the phonostage itself! It calls Yaion MS12B. Did I forget to tell that it cost $170?

Actually I am very pleased with what I see as it has a perfect shape was perfect location of all necessary inputs and outputs. It looks pretty much how it was promised. It even works, I mean the tubes heating, that pilot light are flashing and it amplifies the signal. I even open the bottom of the unit and frankly speaking the assembling is perfectly reasonable. I mean: all fan incuding for $170!


It did not listen this phonocorrector yet, but it also did not blow up right as I turned it on. So, salute to you, the Chinese folks.  It will be fun to try listening it in a couple days; probably I will put in there better 12AX7 and better 12AU7…

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-29-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 33
Post ID: 4833
Reply to: 4818
The Sound of the Yaion MS12B phonostage.

Yaion_MS12B_phonostage.JPG


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-29-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,571
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 34
Post ID: 4834
Reply to: 4833
So you got a nice chassis at a decent price...
You keep coming back to the 85 dB thing, and I am curious to know how you intend to get that kind of gain without including a preliminary boost from a step-up transformer; at least, that's what I have understood you were saying.

Then, how do you plan to knock it back down to <40 dB, net?

Are you going to use the gain to try line-level X-overs?

I know you have a concept...


Best regards,
Paul S
07-29-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 35
Post ID: 4835
Reply to: 4834
I don't know why I never thought about it before…

The two stages 7788-7721 phonostge can go at near 70dB and it were what I was intended to put in that Chinese chassis. I would like 6-10db more. A transformer? A semiconductor gain stage? A third tube stage? I do not know…

Actually reticently, two says ago, an idea stroked me and I am currently evaluating it. It is very possible that if I accept this idea then I would not need a second-type phonostage. Since I still can not see anything that would touch the Sound of my “first” phonostage I was thinking to repackage the Second Expressive Technologies transformer and two EAR-T, making the tandem reusable with other arms (now it is imposable). It would be very simple to do and it will not compromise the loading demands from different arms. I do not know why I never thought about it before…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-02-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 260
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 36
Post ID: 4880
Reply to: 4835
unusual phono stages
Has anyone had the opportunity to listen to this device and form any impressions?

http://www.sound-smith.com/cartridges/sg.html

I recall that Win Labs made something similar in the late 70's but I never heard one.
03-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 37
Post ID: 7018
Reply to: 2453
Rowen Absolute as a “second-type” phonostage?

Since my  First, “End of Life" Phonostage will be done soon ( my mechanism has been doing the box for 3 month)

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=5856

I think again what will be the Second Phonostage to care my other arms with no re-plaguing. There is one interesting option but I know nothing about it. I hope some of the European visitors if my site would hear anything about this phonocorrector.

There is a Swiss company Rowen that makes an interesting phonostage:

http://www.rowen.ch/rowen/rowen.php?c=phono&l=d

It has a separate PS, can take 3 arms (2MC and one MM) and let to set loading for each input. I have no knowledge about the topology, active elements, gains, output impedance, noise, sound quality, price or anything else that I would be interested. The size and the functionalities look right. Do not tell me that it cost more then $100-$1500. Did anyone hear this thing or anything that Rowen does? Do they have US rep? Do they have any info in English?

Rgs, The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 38
Post ID: 7036
Reply to: 7018
Rowen's North American Distributor

It turned out that Rowen has the US rep - Steven Swabacker from Hi Sierra Hi-Fi.  The Sierra Hi-Fi has web site:    

http://hisierrahifi.com/index.html

The site has not a lot of information about the Rowen RIAA corrector but it is what it is. At least I mears that it has 64dB gain. My European sources told me that the Rowen Absolute Phono costs around 4,000 Swiss Fracs. No one I know heard it though….

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-09-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Altius
Posts 1
Joined on 07-09-2010

Post #: 39
Post ID: 13956
Reply to: 2453
BBC Proms
fiogf49gjkf0d
HI, BBC Proms are eight week continuous concert presented at the Albert hall in South Kensington, London.Check the details here..

BBC Proms 2010
Page 2 of 2 (39 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Where are our good phonostages?..  Omnigon Tubes...  Analog Playback Forum     61  638434  05-31-2004
Home Page  |  Last 24Hours  | Search  |  SiteMap  | Questions or Problems | Copyright Note
The content of all messages within the Forums Copyright © by authors of the posts