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In the Forum: Horn-Loaded Speakers
In the Thread: Another time aligned 5-way horn project
Post Subject: Bass compression driver is all I needPosted by Murataltuev on: 10/20/2015
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 Romy the Cat wrote:

Of cause not but did you read and understand the Macondo Axioms? The Macondo Axioms proclaims that an individual driver and individual channel have to be set in maximum suitable for own topology operation. According to Goto the 146 driver has high 20Hz resonance frequency. How will you be able to use it with 150Hz horn? Of cause you will be able to use it and of cause you will have an opportunity to cry that it was a “great tone” but in reality it would not be the optimum setting for this driver.
Is any technical background behind the statement that 4" driver can't operate in 300-1000Hz because resonance is too low ?

Murat, I juts would like to advise you to hold your enthusiasm for Soundex-type of community. Any quality does not come from component but from effort to make the components to function properly. You just discovered Gotos, dumped them in a random seating and cry about tone, while Goto never were especially great tonal drivers. 
I don't know about other GOTO drivers, but I know about GOTO 146 in 50-200Hz range. It is awesome for me. I predict that may be it is better then any direct radiating paper cone driver in sealed enclosure aka compression driver. This is my truth for now, so I'm gonna build system with compression drivers only...from top to bottom.
I am OK that you are not my side. The Goto community is a special breed of people, like iPhone users – it is religion that in many instances based upon amateur expectation.
iPhone users have their own simple reason - iPhone is the best phone. May be GOTO users have the same feeling Smile
But I'm not on GOTO or any other brand side. I'm not looking for other GOTO drivers, because this ones are good.
I'm now on side of compression drivers for the bass region. If any other bass driver (not GOTO) exist, I'll be happy to get and evaluate.
My personal feeling about Sound is that lower we go - more we need compression driver with horns. I can hear very good highs from many good tweeters around and for extream high frequencies horns are sound even worse. That is why I'm using RAAL like you. For mid range is more difficult to find good direct radiating driver, so horns with compression drivers are welcomed in this range. And the lower we go - the picture is worse. Direct radiating is just terrible sound, but compression drivers do not exist! Except one driver which I proudly have and promoting the idea of using compression driver for LF.I can imagine that you got some good result with 8" Fane and 15" Vitavox, but hardly believe that it is something close to what compression driver can do.Integration is important, but not as much as sound of exact driver. This is what I've experienced.
Don't you hear in your system the difference in tone clearness when going lower ? Right hand sounds always brighter that left hand. And it is easy to explain technically. Why not to try make it better by using compression driver on LF ? Ok, Romy, you are not ready now, but later you'll come to this. I'm sure!In some thread you told that it will be interesting for you to talk about sound of your system with GOTO user. I'll be happy to visit you if you invite me one day. May be I'm wrong, thinking that 8" Fane and 15" Vitavox can't do anything close to what GOTO 146 is doing.

I do not think that anybody advise you to “skipping such an incredibly great driver”. You can use anything you want but whatever you chose make a common usable sense of it. What kind help do you expect? So far you did not ask a single sensible question that would indicate to me that you are trying to do anything interesting. Get serious with what you do and do not spill to this site the infamous Soundex’s empty enthusiasm.
Ok, Romy...I'm trying to be very polite and respectfull to break through your arrogance, but I give up Smile I'll not spill infamous Soundex’s empty enthusiasm to your site Smile
If you willing to dedicate one Goto 146 for upper bass and one for midbass then it sound like a good idea. Let presume that you have 400Hz-600Hz MF driver as your base and the rest consecutive channels above. I am sure that you will eventually get rid of your JBL MF and go for a vintage solution but it will be later and to give 400Hz-600Hz as the bottom knee for your prospective MF sound like a reasonable idea. Now, calculate the space you would like to have for your upper bass driver. You need to know juts 2 parameters: exit of your upper bass driver and desirable sixe of mouth. Let juts for a sake of illustration you figure out that you can put 1x1M horn. That would allow you the MF to be at more or less reasonable elevation. The mouth would make let say 100Hz horn rate and if you go with fast opening profile then it will be 1.2M long. This will be time-alignable combination. Also, if you won’t be able to rife the Goto146’s Fs all the way up then you end up with 4” entrance horn and there are plenty of other drivers that you will be able to use. Now it is the time to model how you implement the upper bass horn. Be advised that if you go for 40H then you do not want this horn to shoot toward to you. Most likely it would be curved horn, so use your imagination how to incorporate it in your room. No one could do it buy you. If it as up to me then I would start from Upperbass horn and MF, then after I make the Upperbass and FM tandem to work properly in my room I would supplement it with a direct radiator bass channel and work on perfection of the upper horns. In my mind, looking at the questions you ask you are not ready to undertake the midbass project. You might return to it in a few month after you get a success with your upperbass horn.
Thank you, Romy. This kind of suggestions I highly appreciate and expect from you, frankly speaking. I'll think about upper bass horn and how to integrate mid-bass horn around my chair and keep it time-aligned.But I'll not go for direct radiating bass channel. This is in the past forever!I better stay without bass.
You serious, this is the question you ask? Murat, spend some time reading this site. You will save a lot of time and effort to yourself.
 
I'm doing it every evening SmileOf course, need to learn a lot...I'm just couple of months in good sound horn club Smile

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