Rerurn to Romy the Cat's Site

Hi Scooter,

Thanks for joining the discussion. My replies to your comments are below, please excuse the cut-n'paste.

Thanks for taking the time to post more details on your set up and photos. 

You are welcome. I would like to see and read about your system as well.

This is a good learning process for everyone so please take any comments as free debate and not a personal critique. 

I agree, I have no problem with debate and I usually try to avoid offending anyone or taking offense in the process. However, metaphysical debate only goes so far. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin ? The only real test of any subjective opinion is objective observation using the Scientific Method. Each and every opinion and or belief system can and should be challenged, including mine.

Maybe once you are happy with the fundamentals of your system, which the DEQX can help with, you consider a more traditional approach. 

I am already happy with the fundamentals of my system and I have already tried more traditional, more politically correct methods. I have tested many passive filtering networks and many different types of amps.

1. Digital processing. I know you are heavily invested in that box and it provides some convenient features. 

Yes, and the features are more than just "convenient".

The trade off is that you are settling major constraints that you can not overcome. Digital processing just kills sound in unrecoverable ways.

Again, the proof of the cook is in the pudding. In spite of political, philosophical and technical objections - all metaphysical at this point in time - and your contrary opinion, my digital processors make very good recordings played back on my system sound very good. Poor recordings sound poor, excellent recordings sound excellent. It's an undeniable fact, and if you could hear it for yourself I wager you'd agree. This is Objectively So. My system has objectively neutral tonal balance, objectively excellent dynamics, objectively confirmable PRAT, etc., etc., etc..

For example, remember most of the music you are listening to has already suffered digital processing, perhaps several rounds of it. Processing a second (third...) time causes massive problems from a mathematical perspective. Effectively you are taking a compromised source assembled with from sample data points and then doing that again. Lots of data is lost forever and new data extrapolation has varying degrees of error. A simple sine wave is easy to reproduce with a limited number of sample points. Music is not. There are other technical problems but I suspect this is among the most insidious.

I get what you're saying, I am aware of the technical objections, I know about jitter, I know what happens at the stop band with digital crossovers, but my system still sounds objectively excellent. 'Cold' or 'dead' or any other negative adjectives do not apply to my system's 'sound'. In fact, my system has no 'sound' it gets out of the way so you can hear what the recording sounds like. Neutral.

2. "Class D" Type amps are an interesting beast. 

I agree.

I have listened to a lot of them and like some of the conceptual ideas. 

I have listened to, and owned lots of amps, both solid state and tube, push-pull and single ended. I have not listened to a lot of Class D amps actually, they are never used at shows and I don't know anyone personally who owns any. I like them conceptually too, but I care less for the concept and more for the results.

Unfortunately I have not ever heard a decent sounding one. 

You should drop by sometime and listen to my NuForce amps. They sound very good.  By the way, I am not the only one who likes them. I know reviews are suspicious in general, subjective, but it means something when so many people like Nuforce amps so much.

Like the DEQX, "Class D" sets major technical constraints on your system that limit performance significantly.

In your opinion, but my system can go toe to toe with any system of any style in a similar room. And like I keep saying, if you doubt me, come listen for yourself.

Stupidly, I purchased some Linn "Class D" amps from a distributor for a small room once. They looked great, were very portable, multi-voltage, and sounded just terrible. 

Sorry to hear that. I have never owned any Linn products. NuForce Class D amps operate differently btw than other Class D amps. Folks seem to like them better than than ICE amps for instance.

However, I had one very interesting observation living the "Class D;" plugged directly into the wall socket, they always sounded the same, regardless of day or time of day. That is the only audio gear I have ever encountered that was so consistent.

My NuForce amps also sound the same pretty much, regardless of time of day, but they do sound better after a short warm up, maybe 30 minutes or so. I leave mine turned on all the time. Anyhow, maybe Linn just had a bad product. It happens. I'm sure there are Class D amps that do sound bad, based on what I have read. Or maybe the Linn Class D amps were too accurate for your taste and/or favorite recordings.

One last comment. My preference, as I have stated, is for accurate playback. Nothing subtracted, nothing added. No extra warmth, or reverb from tubes or ported bass. No euphonic overlay. I want to hear what's on my recordings. I like to hear edits and drop ins. I like to sonically 'see' the musicians and hear all the little mistakes. Fingers sliding on guitar strings. Spittle tone from trumpets, all that good stuff. If you like the sort of euphony you get from bi-poles dipoles and panel speakers you might not like my 'ruthlessly revealing' system. 

I bet most anybody would like my system though with the right recordings. If you listen to a good, minimally processed live recording, recorded either on stage or in the studio on my stereo it sounds like it should. Real. Very good recordings sound very good, bad recordings sound bad. My buddy's minimalist DIY digital recordings sound just like he does. Live. This is immediately obvious on my system. 

Here's a test for you. Listen to a recording on a good headphone system, try STAX. Then play back the same recording on your stereo. 

It's not easy to match the overall sonic quality of good headphones. Most loudspeaker systems fall far short. Far, far short.

Ignore things like imaging. Concentrate on tonal balance, dynamics, detail retrieval, etc.. If your system sounds anywhere near as good as a pair of STAX headphones you're doing well.

This is not to say I like headphones. I don't. I like loudspeaker systems. But, headphones are a very good reality check.

Cheers,

Kerry 

Rerurn to Romy the Cat's Site