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In the Forum: Playback Listening
In the Thread: Basic guide to advanced audio
Post Subject: Looking deeperPosted by haralanov on: 8/2/2011
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First of all, I want to note that when somebody lives on the principle of denying everything, he risks to live in his own encapsulated world, build according to his own principles in order to feel comfortable there.
 
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Possible, but what is an alternative?

It is not only possible, it really happens!
 
 Romy the Cat wrote:
To use a good quality direct radiator that presumably gives all necessary colors? There are two problems with this approach. First, colors pallet is only one of the characteristic, there are many others.

And where did you see any problem with that? Of course there are many others, so what? All of the other characteristics are much easily manipulated by using drivers which don’t need any acoustic amplification at their lower working range. Acoustic amplification is a process, which always adds its own signature to the sound and nobody can do anything about that. If one does not want his reproduced sound to have any signature, the he must not use acoustic transformers. How much simple it could be!
 
 Romy the Cat wrote:
The second: how do you know that with your driver you might not be benefited by what I call "injection?"

I know, because when I listen carefully how it sounds, I do not feel any need to have more colors in its working range. Not to mention that I use wide frequency overlapping with the surrounding channels, so they further extend its color pallet. My tweeter adds the taste of honey and lemon at the top of its range, and my upper bass channels (I have two of them) add tonal fluffyness at the bottom of its range. All this is absolutely enough in order to mimic the original timbral structure of so many unique sounding music instruments.
 
 Romy the Cat wrote:
You might not know what kind result I get from my ejection and your assessment that your single driver gives a sufficient palette of colors might be inaccurate. It is very difficult, almost imposable to make those assessments without being familiar with the actual results.

I really predicted you will answer this way – what other option you have? :-)
OK, let suppose you are some kind of magician and you made your injection channel to be capable of changing its coloration algorithm according to the specific music material you play at a given moment. Then tell me how it is possible without using “magic”? You know I am very curious to know the answer of this question :-)
 
 Romy the Cat wrote:
One more thing. In my mind the injection that I use is more preferable solution then to use truly rich driver as you presumably use. The resosn is that using one good driver you have no control over it's color. The driver is what it is and you can't add or reduced colors. Using one driver you have no control over depth of colors, I do.

Hahahhahahha, how more silly this could be?  No, it’s not silly – it is ridiculous :-)) I have control over thousand parameters of my main driver (and not only my main driver, but also my tweeters, my upperbass/lower midrange drivers and my 23” bass drivers!) Choosing the type of magnet system, the geometry of the magnetic circuit, the hysteresis properties of the magnetic steel, the type of the voice coil, the material of the VC former, the INDUCTANCE of the voice coil, the type of the glue for the different joints, the way the sound energy coming from the VC is transferred to the cone, the type of the cone, the geometrical properties of the cone, the type of suspension, the combination of different materials for that suspension (for more complex tone) and literally zillion other variables – I am able to manipulate the tone to any degree I want – I have unlimited freedom to do so.
“The driver is what it is and you can't add or reduced colors” – this is valid in your case, but I really wish you to start research in the field of compression drivers and to invent your custom driver which is able to kick your Vitavox S2 right in the ass! I know it is not easy, but I also do not see any reason that stops you not to try it! Only then you will have the sound that you imagine in your mind – your type of sound. But still keep in mind we have already concluded that the less the compression, the better the sound :-)
 
 Romy the Cat wrote:
I am sorry, haralanov, but it absolute BS. To have a reflection as you depicted the wavelength shall be comparable with the radius of the throat.

Come on…. I really thought you, by having more than decade long experience in the field of horns, are going to make your comments to be more objective. My illustration will be incorrect ONLY WHEN the sound source at the entry point of the horn is entire diaphragm, but not compression driver emitting its sound through the tiny slits!!!! Where did you see that 1,5” cone/dome at my illustration?? Since the dispersion pattern is defined by the physical size of the object (and particularly by its smallest dimension in the cases where this object is not perfectly round) which radiates the sound, then reconsider very carefully how wide the slits of your compression driver are... They are only few millimeters wide and because of that, they emit the sound with very wide dispersion pattern. It is very simple to try this in reality. Just take your s2 driver (in the air, without the horn) and play some 10kHz sinusoidal signal. You will notice how its high frequency energy attenuates very little when being listened over 30 degrees off-axis. Now imagine what will happen when you add a horn in front of it. Well, there is no need to imagine – just look at the illustration at my previous post :-)) Now after it is clear there are reflections inside the horn, let continue with the comments:
 
 Romy the Cat wrote:
I see absolutely no problems with any other type of reflections. Reflections is it how all sound works, so what is the problem with it?

The problem is that I hear them as a specific type of sound signature that I associate with the mechanical device reproducing the signal coming from the amplifier. If I close my eyes and you play for me 20 different speakers, I will always tell you if there is horn type of speaker – my ear (actually brain) is very sensitive to that type of inherent sound signature. Maybe all the horn users have their brains wired differently and they are restricted by the Nature to recognize that type of specific signature. Who knows....
 
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Have you heard about the axis cancelations in direct radiators? Why do you feel that the axis cancelations in direct radiators are less damaging then alleged horn reflections?

You can think of direct radiators as a kind of very fast expanding horns. They have very slight horn effect for the frequencies radiated by the center of the cone, but the cancellations that you are talking about are order of magnitude less compared to let say tractrix type of horn profile. The cancellations that you are talking about exist mainly in the controllable zone of the cone, so one can almost entirely eliminate them if he knows how to do so.
 
 Romy the Cat wrote:
The point is that I do not feel that forward reflections in the horns are a subject at all - it just not exists in my estimations any meaningful way.

I’m OK with that and I’m OK with ALL of your other comments. If you are happy with the sound in your room, then everything is OK – this is the only important thing of all – to be satisfied by the sound you have in reality. All other things are much less important. I am also happy, I feel very good in my body, because I practice a lot of sports, and I feel a lot of pleasure when I’m listening my favorite music home. Actually the musical joy I have in home is greater than when listening live.
 
Best regards,
P. Haralanov
 

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