GoodSoundClub - Romy the Cat's Audio Site

In the Forum: Playback Listening
In the Thread: Basic guide to advanced audio

Post Subject: Looking wider....Posted by Romy the Cat on: 8/2/2011

haralanov wrote:
Your response is a very good illustration of how you redirect attention away from the actual discussing subject and point it to a completely different direction that has absolutely no relation to that subject. You asked me what I mean by saying “horny” and I just gave you an example – nothing more, nothing less. The video link is not there to illustrate what Vengerov or Menuhin do, but to show you how I feel the horns sound like (!) – they always push the sound with unnecessary force.

Nope, it was not my desire to redirect attention but my lack of understudying why you brought us that video clip, twice. Now you have explain that for you it is the illustration that horn push the sound with unnecessary force. I did not get this message from the video. Also, I do not feel that horn push sound with unnecessary force. If the horns are not overloaded then they are perfectly able to play soft. In fact even theory would describe why horns are able to play much softer than anything else as they have higher compliance to minimum currents, the currents what the direct radiators will not even recognize as “signal”.

haralanov wrote:
That’s why I am interested only in drivers which don’t need any throat reactance in order to work properly. But I will trash my drivers and replace them with compression ones in the moment when somebody demonstrates me really worthy horn loaded drivers. I do not belong to the group of people who are slaves to a given speaker topology and I can instantaneously change my concepts IF there is something that is going to provide better results in terms of sound.

There is nothing wrong with drivers that use throat reactance as a contra load and the drivers that do not. There are people who modify the front pressure to drivers, I experimented with it and it does change the things. I think you have a bit wrong attitude toward to it. You have a direct radiator that you like and you for some reasons feel a need to attack horn loading idea. The reality is that the horn loading idea does not compete with your direct radiator and your criticism to horn loading is not very rational and practicable. No one forces you to use or to like horn loading, if you do not like them then to be so. Frankly speaking I would be more interested to hear about own direct radiator driver then to hear your not always accurate criticism about horns.

haralanov wrote:
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I am sorry, haralanov, but it absolute BS. What do you feel is wrong in your ilistration? To have a reflection as you depicted the wavelength shall be comparable with the radius of the throat. The throat of 1.5” diameter would be equal 1.9 cm radius and would be equal to a wavelength of 18052Hz. Do you have any idea what happen in any compression driver at 18Khz? The operation at such high frequency not even closely reminds the coherent waved as you depicted and the driver at those frequencies has 99% of cancelations and phase randomizing that is consume in itself. In order the drive to be able to push 18K the throat would be a few mm and your picture will not be even applicable as those type of the drivers will have the phase plug with long extended needle into the horn, the needle that will make your illustration impose.

haralanov wrote:
This is the third you put words in my mount, words that were never told by me. Where did you read I have written that the sound is reflected back in the horn? I said it is being reflected inside the horn, not back in the horn.

When you said “reflected” and used it as a critical justification it might be understood ONLY as reflected back as I see absolutely no problems with any other type of reflections. Reflections is it how all sound works, so what is the problem with it? The forward reflections in horn are not reflection but the signal that horn mouth produce. When you gardening hose with water and the water rushes out of the hose then do you care that some of the “particles” of the water moved inside the hose slightly side-wise? Of cause not as you use the pressure of the whole hose mouth to do what you need to do. Do you want to measure and to compare the alleged reflections in the horn mouth with the actual reflections of the direct radiators? Have you heard about the axis cancelations in direct radiators? Why do you feel that the axis cancelations in direct radiators are less damaging then alleged horn reflections? The point is that I do not feel that forward reflections in the horns are a subject at all – it just not exists in my estimations any meaningful way. If so, then any accusations of reflections I understand only as reflections back, something that is unquestionably bad and something that any good horns shell not have.

haralanov wrote:
Now the owner of the injected S2s listen to this concerto, but is he able to hear the real colors of that violin, despite he feels his system has super tonal complexity? The answer is NO. I will tell you why. It is because the sound is now polluted by the algorithm that makes the injection channel to be saturated by colorations. That algorithm affects the sound always in the same way, because the injection channel does not have own intelligence to decide how to color the sound of the different instruments. It colors their sound with the same intentions every single time and that is the real problem. The sound of every note has the taste of that channel.

Possible, but what is an alternative? To use a good quality direct radiator that presumably gives all necessary colors? There are two problems with this approach. First, colors pallet is only one of the characteristic, there are many others. The second: how do you know that with your driver you might not be benefited by what I call “injection?” You might not know what kind result I get from my ejection and your assessment that your single driver gives a sufficient palette of colors might be inaccurate. It is very difficult, almost imposable to make those assessments without being familiar with the actual results. One more thing. In my mind the injection that I use is more preferable solution then to use truly rich driver as you presumably use. The resosn is that using one good driver you have no control over it’s color. The driver is what it is and you can’t add or reduced colors. The key in it not to have driver color-dull but not to have it overly color-frenzy. Using one driver you have no control over depth of colors, I do.
Rgs, Romy the Cat

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