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In the Forum: Playback Listening
In the Thread: Basic guide to advanced audio
Post Subject: There is a difference between true reality and imaginary realityPosted by haralanov on: 8/1/2011
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 Jorge wrote:
some of the bigest strenghs of horns is indeed power and dynamics

Yes, you are right. Power – you have almost unlimited power. Dynamics – you have as much dynamics as you want. But there are a lot of associated problems with that kind of dynamics. The following illustration is taken by Wolfgang Klippel’s technical paper "Loudspeaker Nonlinearities – Causes, Parameters, Symptoms":

Wave steepening.jpg
 
As Paul perfectly put it in words – “trombone dynamics”! So that inherent steepening of the reproduced signal makes your brain to believe the sound is very dynamic. And it really happens! BUT – you have that kind of very dynamic behavior even when you play music where that dynamics are originally not there (!!) So how could this topology pass the musical messages in completely transparent way without affecting their original meaning? Yes, you already guessed – it cannot. You can also read Kondo’s observations on the subject:

 Hiroyasi Kondo wrote:
Cone speakers have sometimes been characterised as "boneless sounding", but such disadvantaes were elliminated by these improvemnts, and more over, this cone type achieves an obedient sound that cannot be gained from horn type units.


Notice how Vengerov starts to play at 0:25-0:40:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk6tqaPLp5M&feature=relmfu    "You start beeing heroic - which is unnecessary" - he said :-))

When the universe is at rest, I want to feel its calmness, not to feel my ass kicked by the horn's dynamics.
Tone? Where is the tone of the compression drivers/ horn combos? If there is no tone deficiency, then why one needs injection channels?

 Jorge wrote:
IMHO horns do have the ability to image better than direct radiators.

Jorge, I think you have heard no more than 5% (in the best case!) of what direct radiators are capable of in terms of Sound. One cannot judge for a given topology of speakers by just observing what is being offered to him by this stupid industry…
 
 Jorge wrote:
you dont get highs or lows, just extended midrange.

Actually if one hears the sound as extended midrange, this is also a sound artifact. The sound of the different instruments should be heard as a sound coming from different instruments and nothing else. When I listen trombone playing live, I do not hear how its midrange sounds like, I just hear the sound of the trombone. When I’m listening double bass playing live, I do not hear the bass or its overtones – I hear just the sound of the double bass. So the extended midrange effect should be there, but it has to be completely unnoticed by the ear/brain.

 Jorge wrote:
It is spherical because you feel like you could bend downwards and look infinitely beyond the sphere,  on bass,  and also lets say stand up and get a clear view on top,  like the "poles" of this sphere being highs and lows,  not evidently present but seemingly infinite in extension.  Hard to describe,  but clear if you have heard it before.

Yes, I know exactly what you are talking about, but there is a higher state of sound presentation that is much more interesting and musically involving.

 Romy the Cat wrote:
I am not sure why you associated it with MF and HF. From my point of view your definition of “Audio window” is more managed by upperbass and lower MF. 

Of course (!!) it is managed mainly by the upperbass and lower midrange, but it is deformed (the “space” is deformed, not the geometrical properties of the audio window; audio window is just responsible for the feeling of space to happen in the listener’s mind) by the tweeter (not by the HFs, but by the tweeter as a separate sound source). That’s the only reason why I put an accent on the tweeters and their integration. It is so important!

 Romy the Cat wrote:
The presentational geometry is very important but only for audio not for listening to the message.

The musical message is also affected, because its authentic value and magnitude of it expressiveness is also a function of the audio message. If it is not audio related, then all of the existing systems would be musical to the same amplitude as if the listener is listening live music, but unfortunately it is not the case...

 Romy the Cat wrote:
Sure, no one would argue and as I said when speaker is design, tested, calibrate or tuned then only one right or left channel is used. 

The whole point is/was and will be this:

 haralanov wrote:
So if they do the things I already mentioned several times, the owner of these stereo channels will experience different, much more advanced type of recreated reality (which could NEVER be achieved if the channels have any deficiency of “space” when listened separately, no matter the room integration efforts and no matter if they are placed according to DPoLS rules)

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