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In the Forum: Audio Discussions
In the Thread: It’s mad, mad, mad... electricity.

Post Subject: Some observations.Posted by Romy the Cat on: 1/6/2011

Lx_ wrote:
The second sentence is my own conclusion. It was not my intention to imply that it is yours, sorry for the misunderstanding this may have caused. We both agree that PP can be sensitive to incoming AC. The context and circumstances are different though and we still do not know what can cause this behavior.

My enter post to what you replied was in a specific context, and I think I did highlighted it multiple times. I was talking not about the performance of PP2000 generally but about of a performance of a properly functioning PP2000 what the butteries are begin to die. My last properly operating PP2000 I got in December of 2009 (or 2008 I do not remember already) and for a good year I did not detect any significant PP2000 sensitive to incoming AC.

Lx_ wrote:

What can we infer from all this?

PP output is not completely isolated from input; this is true for ground as well as hot/neutral
Either PP lets input AC noise through, or there is a problem with the battery charging circuit generating noise on the output, or something entirely different. But noise gets through when not on battery. APS should be able to fix this.
Ground noise is an issue for which I have no acceptable solution at the moment. I think APS will not work on this, they say PP will not solve ground issues. Lifting ground is OK for a simple test but I do not want to operate like this. I will have to try using a filter on incoming AC. Otherwise I will have to live with whatever appliance noise there is.

Lx, I do appreciate a certain sense of methodology that you follow. I think it would be useful if you quantify your definition of “better” as some “differences” do not mean faulty operation of PP2000 and some do. I guess the death of the differences and the specifics of the differences are the key. I am very skeptical at your, Paul and Richard conversation about ground. I find it a bit irrelevant. The ground noise that I observe, at least in my case, is different than the bad sounding electricity coming from hot wire. PP2000 deal with hot wire potential but the grounding issuers is not the matter of PurePower in my view. Yes, remember that in past PP1050 had a bag and produced very high voltage between neutral and ground – then what you do not going to work – but it looks like since PurePower moved to PP2000 the problem is not there anymore.

Regarding your case. I do not know if your problem is with your grounding pattern or with some kind of defect you have in PP2000. Your staggering with your PC PS I find irrelevant as whatever damage it inflict it would be damage dams, the damage from AC fluctuates dally and hourly.

You can easily test it if the problems you have are not ground problems. Got to a home improvement stare and buy a couple dozens of cheater plugs. Plug ALL of your complements into the cheater plugs, assuring that none of them will read the PP2000/AC ground. Alternately your can plug all of your equipment into a power strip and then the power strip via the cheater plug to the PP2000. Be advised that it might be a bit tricky and you need absolutely assured that there is no pass from your equipment ground to PP2000 ground. If you have your PC plugged to PP2000 and PC use a monitor, of powered KVM switch or any PC peripherals plugged into AC and do not have ground lifted then your experiment will be wordless (and you will have some ground loops in addition) . so, for the sake of simplicity you might use the only few components the do sound form you like (CD-DAC-Pre-Power amps) – it would be easy to control them. If your system is not balanced (like mine) then run a R-meter between AC ground and ground terminal of your RCA jacks - you must NOT have a direct path- it shall be kOhms or mOhms. Now, your playback ground is completely lifted from AC ground. You might have a lot of voltage between AC ground and your playback ground. Do not worry about it . There is an important this in this case – do NOT touch with your hands PP2000 chassis and your system ground at the same time, in fact keep the PP2000 aside from playback to eliminate any accidental contacts between them.

What you have now is a perfect test environment to test of your ground is dirty. Listed the result you what you have. Then find a single point of your system (in my care it is preamp grout) and run a fat high ga. cable (I run #2) from this single point to your AC ground, before the PP2000. Compare the result. Then make your own ground (plumbing pipes, gas lines, own dedicated rod in yard). Run your fat high ga. Cable to this ground and observe the results. If your playback is properly organized and built then you shall not have any sonic differences between your own “clean ground” and the completely lifted ground. You might have some difference when you use the AC ground but it will be no huge. I personally do not believe that your appliances might inflict so much harm via ground - they shall not do it. and if you have problem with sound that you feel coming from your appliances then the problems are not coming to you via ground.

In my personal side I would note that what I have PP2000 properly operated then I would use the “lifted”, or “own ground” approaches or to plug everything in PP2000 as use it as is – all of the methods produce fine results. There was “some” but in either configuration it was perfectly usable. As now, looking back, I might say that this I those “differences” did change in the end of my properly operating PP2000 tenure. I attribute it now to the battery dyeing but as I told before this is just a hypothesis.

The Cat

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