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  »  New  About the DAW playback software...  Best hardware with best software...  Didital Things  Forum     11  68731  03-22-2008
  »  New  Better DAW by a “second” echelon of digital efforts?..  Better DAW by a “second” echelon of digital efforts?...  Didital Things  Forum     0  11208  10-08-2007
  »  New  The best practices for DAW Data Storage...  The Time Stamps Directories Synchronizer...  Didital Things  Forum     9  51487  09-24-2007
  »  New  The contra-ridicules solution for a good DAW?..  Happy to see this thread...  Didital Things  Forum     1  21312  06-18-2009
  »  New  To play my 88/24 files off laptops...  Laptop Sound...  Didital Things  Forum     3  20451  04-17-2008
11-17-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 17383
Reply to: 17383
Better organization/design forDAW.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Last couple month when I rebooted my DAW it has difficult time to start up; it looks like motherboard is going and bias sometime during boot does not see hardware. Usually with 30 min and 10-60 automatic recursive attempts the machine boots and then works fine. I think the main reasons are that back in 2005 when I entered DAW world and built this box the silence was a key for me and I went for open box configuration where motherboard is exposed to dirt, dust, moisture and etc….. It was not too smart move but it was fast and convenient at that time.

I kind of slowly am considering rebuilding my DAW. I do not look to do anything different: it still will be basic Windows machine with optimized OS, Lynx 16, WaveLab and pretty much nothing else. I however, wonder about 2 things:

1)      What hardware is approved for DAW machines? (Motherboard, possessors, USB comptrollers, perhaps OS version etc… Is any credible site that explores the subject of DAW-minded hardware?

2)      I wonder if it possible nowadays to have different configuration of DAW. For instance to have all driver in some kind or array storage over network and to have DAW with only OS and recording drive.

3)      Buy vs. build.  This is interesting and I do not mind to buy. I however need my own configuration. I need at least 6 drivers in the box: OS, Recording/Transition, Opera, Concertos, Symphonic, and Chamber. The OS, Recording/Transition driver have to be locally but the rest might be distributed and to be 1-2T. The existing audiophiles ready to buy machines are not optimized for recording and editing. They have some kind of crappie play software most of the time and silent operation. Bothe subjects that I care less. They also cost a lot – something that I do not like.

Anyhow, I need to define a configuration for my next DAW machine. Perhaps I need to look what pro audio folks do with their machines, even those they mend for different purposes. Did anybody go over DAW designing recently? What are the most current tendencies? I do not look into it for 6 years, I am sure something new might be out there…

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-04-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 17476
Reply to: 17383
Options DAW box
fiogf49gjkf0d
I looked what is around and I did not like whatever I see. The industry music server machines are all crap and mostly made to copy CDs and to play them from semi-intelligent applications.  My requirements are very specific and not of the existing machines fit them. Here what I need and it is very simple: single core moderate speed processor, option to install my Lynx 16 card, XP operation system, at least 8 USB connectors. Simple? Well it gets more complicated from there.

If I decided to locate my 5 files storage hard drive inside the box then I would like to have a very large box with 7 drives + 2 small drives (5 storage + System + Recording) and I would like to load the box with a LOT of fan to keep the HH cold. (I do not like to shot down drives as I feel it kills them). This will put my DAW box to where it is now, in basement. The problem with it that USB does not run very across 8 feet cable, so in my listening room I have no access to the box, except keyboard and monitor.

There is another option: to get a mini-computer with silent operation and put it right to rest of my equipment in my listening room.  This mini- computer shall have a slot for Lynx 16 card and a clot for E-SATA card, along with all of those USB connectors and CD-ROM that become to be local.  The mini-box needs to have two small drives for System and Recording. My storage drive do to the array box and connected via E-SATA, they all my live in that basement. I kind of like this second solution but I did not see a good barebones mini-computer. Usually the mini-computers have very compromise motherboard and do not give the options that I need, not to mention that “silence”. The west would be for me to get barebones mini-computer with option for externals power supply as I do have silent PS that works very well. It would be nice to hire somebody to let this person to do research and building…

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-04-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
joaco


The Pacific Coast in Chile
Posts 30
Joined on 12-18-2010

Post #: 3
Post ID: 17477
Reply to: 17476
My experience
fiogf49gjkf0d
I was in a similar situation , the problem seems easy but its very time consuming . Other problem is moores law , so when you try to find very silent technology one could have trouble in the slots in the motherboard with his actual hardware . Like having a lynx aes 16 PCI but finding a solution in a computer that uses PciE technology . I ended up with a G5 computer , that give me the option to put my lynx aes pci version on pci slot and to have os x and was cheap enough comparing to crappy music servers costing too much . I try a mac pro new model also , wonderful machine and silent , just out of the box , but too much for my application i felt i was throwing away too much power and this machine use only pciE , any way if one have a pciE audio card and wish to use xp can do dual boot , i do not know what version of lynx aes your using i think if using pciE version things could be easier . 
Regards .
Joaquin ,
12-05-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 17478
Reply to: 17477
I am not a big fan of Apple mashines.
fiogf49gjkf0d

I have old PCI Lynx card. I think they do have a new version with PciE, it call Lynx AES16e:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554850-REG/Lynx_Studio_Technology_AES16E_AES16e_PCI_Express.html

It still despite the PciE will not go to laptop….

Anyhow, I heard a lot of comments that MAC does very good DAW machine. Unfortunately I hate MAC, in fact I do not like Apple at all and my universe did not even shake when Steve Jobs died. As far as I concerned it was the death of the person why polluted people minds with digital compression of music. There is nothing else he did that I am informed or care.

Some people assured to me that old MAC 4 is a fantastic playback platform and it will blow anything out there. The same people assured me that if I do not play MAC 4 than I can’t hear 50% of music, if I know what I mean.

I heard that MAC machines are quieter and have better CD-ROM drives. The problem is that I do not know how to deal with MAC machines. I am software industry professional and run Microsoft-centric consultancy.  I am so accustom to Window machines that each time I see MAC I literally twisting my arms. I can’t open or close window in there, I can’t move mouse in there – everything is tremendous pain and tremendous discomfort to me in MAC. I do not mind to try it and assess the MAC’s sonic perspective but I truly afraid the I will hate to use it. I did try a few times and it was a huge pain to me.

Rgs,
The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-05-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
joaco


The Pacific Coast in Chile
Posts 30
Joined on 12-18-2010

Post #: 5
Post ID: 17480
Reply to: 17478
Some people do magma
fiogf49gjkf0d
Ok i understood . there are some little enclosures that add pci or pciE port through Pcmcia or similar so one can have laptop and do pciE from outside , but there are not cheap , also there is a pci option to add , any way its not a cheap option , thtats the reason why i did not go for it , but it seems very good 
 Have a look at magma http://www.magma.com/ expansion ports , just to add in your horizon of options . 
Joaquin .
12-05-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 184
Joined on 02-12-2010

Post #: 6
Post ID: 17482
Reply to: 17480
Alternative to Magma PCI expansion
fiogf49gjkf0d
 joaco wrote:
Ok i understood . there are some little enclosures that add pci or pciE port through Pcmcia or similar so one can have laptop and do pciE from outside , but there are not cheap , also there is a pci option to add , any way its not a cheap option , thtats the reason why i did not go for it , but it seems very good 
 Have a look at magma http://www.magma.com/ expansion ports , just to add in your horizon of options . 
Joaquin .


Hi Jaoquin,

This may be useful to you.

http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/expresscard-34-to-pci-expansion-box-p29858.html

This expansion is available on the company's website but also on ebay:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Exsys-EX-1025-ExpressCard-2-x-PCI-Slot-2-x-PCI-Express-Slot-Expansion-Box-/150677900054?pt=Controller&hash=item23151a4b16

It is certainly cheaper than Magma's offering above.

Best regards
Rakesh
12-05-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 17483
Reply to: 17482
Very interesting idea.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 oxric wrote:
This may be useful to you.

http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/expresscard-34-to-pci-expansion-box-p29858.html

This expansion is available on the company's website but also on ebay:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Exsys-EX-1025-ExpressCard-2-x-PCI-Slot-2-x-PCI-Express-Slot-Expansion-Box-/150677900054?pt=Controller&hash=item23151a4b16

It is certainly cheaper than Magma's offering above.

I have to consult with my hardware peoples and to educate myself what kind logic in that extension box and if it will screw up in any way what Lynx does. It probably will be good idea to give call to Lynx support, they VERY helpful and very knowledgeable.

What would be nice if Lynx or RME of the company of the same level would do laptop-compatible digital interfaces, for let say 4 channels. Also, it would be nice if manufacturers would deluxe versions of docking stations for laptop that would have a option to plug PCI card…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-26-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 8
Post ID: 17580
Reply to: 17383
That sucks!
fiogf49gjkf0d
I got a great X-Mas gift – my PC DAW finally died.  It does not boot anymore, it does not see any per peripherals, driver and it looks like the motherboard is gone. I kind of was ready to get a new DAW but I was not ready that my old will die and I will not have any idea what configuration if new DAW to get.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-27-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 9
Post ID: 17589
Reply to: 17580
A new DAW poker game.
fiogf49gjkf0d

In response to my announcement that my DAW went “caput” I was expecting that people would bombard me with advise do not do PC anymore and try Mac. I was kind of semi-ready for it but… not one bombarded me. In fact a few Mac people I know were not available but I need to have my DAW back to operation sooner than 2 weeks vocation.

So, I desired to do with what I know PC only this time I would like to have my quiet DAW sitting right next to the rest of my equipment.  So, the hard drives with days would go to the external network arrays and the little PC will have only system drive and recording drives.

I was looking at many small and compact towers and was not too impressed. They do not host the sophisticated motherboards; they do not have a lot of option for bay expansion (my Links card) , they have strange cooling patters. Of course here are SOME mini PCs that have all of it and they are VERY promising but they come with over $1K price tag. Also, I have difficulties to agree with anything that I can touch and feel. I of cause do not mind to pay $1K or more for DAW but I need to be sure that it will be what I want but not another temporary solution.

Anyhow, looking thought the options I come across to a very interesting option: IBM ThinkCentre M57P machine. I always was a big fan of IBM machines and here was something that I found promising. The M57P machine is compact box, the size of a half VCR, if you ember them (SFF version,  IBL call them Small Form Factor: 3.9 x 12.5 x 13.4). It has old 2.33 GHz processor that does not do the crazy duo and quarto threading – something that I do not need for DAW and in fact would like does not have. It will run Windows XP – I am a bit afraid to for 64bit OC and it has 4G memory – enough for XP. It has shitty video and sound cards – perfect for what I need. It has a room for 2 hard drives: perfect – perfect OS and one Recording. It has one PCI slot and one E- PCI slots: perfect for Links and perks one USB extra controller. It has 6 USB, one eSATA and the rest standard things…. Oh, yes, and it is BLACK – the way how it MUST be. I like how it compacted and I it has one single fan, that can be dealt with. It has external PS (something that I LOVE to have for DAW) and it takes 45W to operate. Hey, I can get this box for $200 – can you beat it?

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/pdf/Lenovo_M57p_Datasheet.pdf

ThinkCentre_M57p.jpg

I played this morning with on my client side and I very much like it. So I will go for it. I do not know what will be sonic result from it but I do have very good feeling. As long it will take my Links card and be able to access my driver array it will be fine. I am bit concerns about noise but in the worst case I can put the fan assembly in basemen and run a culling pipe to my DAW…

Let see how my new DAW poker game, or better to call "Lenovo Gambit", will turn out.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-29-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 10
Post ID: 17623
Reply to: 17589
The guy next door.
fiogf49gjkf0d

I brought my dead DAW today to a guy next door who run a computer store:

http://www.alfacomputer.com/index.html

The guy detected that my super-duper PS does not stabilizes the main 3.2V and it had screwed up something on motherboard. The $65 later my DAW was flying just newborn. How wonderful it is!!!!

I still would like to gofor a new DAW but now the problem lost its acuteness.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-29-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
scooter
Posts 161
Joined on 07-17-2008

Post #: 11
Post ID: 17625
Reply to: 17623
Dead hard drives
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy - Why don't you have that guy resurrect your dead hard drives with all those years of recorded WGBH concerts? 
01-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 12
Post ID: 17659
Reply to: 17589
What an idiot!!!
fiogf49gjkf0d
I got my IBM ThinkCentre machine and true felt in love with it. What is wonderful little box. It is very quiet as it as it is fast for what I need to do and it is just perfect size for in-system DAW. I got IceDoc external drive array and they work very nice as well. Everything was absolutely splendid until I realized that my new beloved new mini-ThinkCentre has PCI slot that require a low profile card and my Lynx will not fit in there. What an idiot I am!

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-12-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coxhaus
Texas
Posts 1
Joined on 12-26-2010

Post #: 13
Post ID: 17823
Reply to: 17476
For your DAW box
fiogf49gjkf0d

I have been lurking for a while as I am a Bidat owner without being able to help. I have been building computers for more than 20 years and I may be able to help. When you start building machines with lots of drives I think it would be better to build a RAID5 type machine. You’re read and write through put goes up plus you gain redundancy. You really don’t want to separate drives but run separate partitions. You need at least 5 drives to gain benefit. What you do is create an RAID5 RAID with 5 or 6 drives and partition the system separate from the data or more data partitions. All of this will give you a very fast machine. You will want a multi processor CPU. The down side is the heat and noise this machine will create. You will not want it in the same room as the listening room. If decide to go down this path I will be happy to help.

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   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  About the DAW playback software...  Best hardware with best software...  Didital Things  Forum     11  68731  03-22-2008
  »  New  Better DAW by a “second” echelon of digital efforts?..  Better DAW by a “second” echelon of digital efforts?...  Didital Things  Forum     0  11208  10-08-2007
  »  New  The best practices for DAW Data Storage...  The Time Stamps Directories Synchronizer...  Didital Things  Forum     9  51487  09-24-2007
  »  New  The contra-ridicules solution for a good DAW?..  Happy to see this thread...  Didital Things  Forum     1  21312  06-18-2009
  »  New  To play my 88/24 files off laptops...  Laptop Sound...  Didital Things  Forum     3  20451  04-17-2008
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