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09-26-2005 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 1477
Reply to: 1477
Playback evaluations made easy.

I had quite a few visitors lately, who stopped by to listen my audio. Most of them, with rare exceptions, were quite boring meetings, however I played for the “special” people different music and conducted some my own experiments with listening perception.

During those listening sessions I become kind of radical and was trying to assess the level of my visitors Audio Moronity using explicitly Beethoven recordings. The conclusion that I have reached was following: by playing to a listener a different Beethoven repertoire and the different performances it is possible to nail down the exact performing complexity that the listener can handle/afford. Form there, is it very simple to built a direct bridge to the audio level where the given person is capable to operate.

Try it and you learn a lot, perhaps about yourselves.
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-26-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 1479
Reply to: 1477
"Try it."

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Hey Romy, I've been operating that way for twenty-five years. The trick is always to find an individual's music appreciation level first, then hit the audio.

clark
09-27-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 3
Post ID: 1480
Reply to: 1479
Music appreciation first? Audio first?

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 clarkjohnsen wrote:
...The trick is always to find an individual's music appreciation level first, then hit the audio.

Hmmm. I would argue it. Not because I have any firmed opinion about it but because my personal experience does no support it.

Hi-Fi, as we accept it today, came to my life very early, somewhere when I was nine years old, and I remember as I was doing some tricks at that time to my “playback” that my father allowed me to use. So, I was doing Audio all my life, in one way or another, as well I had the “music appreciation” in one way or another all my life. However, the fact of “music appreciation” itself is completely irrelevant. I am sure any single person would say about own “music appreciation”, so what? I think it is not about the “music appreciation” itself but the relationship between the “music appreciation” and the applications of that “appreciation”. The applications of the appreciation and the relationship between the appreciation and other things that the person does/feels is the key….

For instance I sincerely feel that I was very much crewless in the sensibility of my “real music appreciation” before the relatively recent times. Some lucky people “got” the real music at their childhood. I was not one of them and since my childhood I was doing other things. The real undressing of the “music appreciation” came to me somewhere in the 1997-1998 and ironically it came to me FROM audio. At that time I was looking for higher purpose of audio and was trying to define for myself some rationale of my audio peruse, the rationale that would sound to my own consciousness reasonable and noble. Searching the higher definition in audio I inadvertently found higher definition of musicality. I would not advocate some kind of musical success of my mind but I do feel quite comfortable today with my musical sensibility in relation to the composite consciousness of musical culture….

So, the proposed by you necessity “to find an individual's music appreciation level first, then hit the audio” is not necessary the rule as it should not come first. In fact I think that your “rule” would be an aberration as if a person do found a music appreciation FIRST then he would hardly be able to seriously consider audio and a serious expressive tool.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-27-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 1481
Reply to: 1480
Re: Music appreciation first? Audio first?

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"I was looking for higher purpose of audio." Yes, and that would be music. But audio, as you seem to be saying, can be enjoyed on its own as a hobby, a hobby I might add much superior to coin collecting, for instance.

All I meant by my quoted statement is that a person's music is more important to me than his audio.

On the other hand, my audio buds have brought me some great new music!

clark
09-27-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 258
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 5
Post ID: 1482
Reply to: 1477
Re: Playback evaluations made easy.

Hi Romy,

I've met musicians who understand music to a far greater degree than (I suspect) you or I ever would. I wouldn't however necessarily trust their judgement on matters relating to good playback. Some of them use quite appalling systems and yet are quite satisfied with them.

On a separate although related issue can you explain how a string quartet playing in my living room would sound any more real if they were playing complex 'content loaded' music as opposed to maybe tuning their instruments or playing extremely simple music badly?

May I also withdraw any positive comments I've ever made regarding the competence of audio manufacturers. Having just visited the London show (with one or two exceptions) this was the worst array of overpriced under achieving garbage I've ever seen/heard gathered in one place. Even including CES! I thought of you particularly when I experienced Ken Kessler's 'pick of the show' system. That really was quite something,

best regards,

Guy

09-27-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 1483
Reply to: 1482
Re: Playback evaluations made easy.

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Guy writes:

"I've met musicians who understand music to a far greater degree than (I suspect) you or I ever would. I wouldn't however necessarily trust their judgement on matters relating to good playback."

Often have I said, musicians are usually the worst judges of recorded sound. They get caught up in trivia such as rhythm, pacing, phrasing, expression etc.

"May I also withdraw any positive comments I've ever made regarding the competence of audio manufacturers. Having just visited the London show (with one or two exceptions) this was the worst array of overpriced under achieving garbage I've ever seen/heard gathered in one place."
 
Can't judge anything or anyone by show conditions. Even if something *does* manage to sound fairly good, it's only by comparison!

clark
09-28-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 258
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 1488
Reply to: 1483
Re: show conditions

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If an exhibitor can repeatedly make a good sound at different exhibitions, if they can make a good sound in an identical room to those in which others are presenting a dirge then I'd beg to differ that you can't judge anything by 'show' conditions. I wouldn't buy anything based on what I heard at a show but I do think you can learn something from the people exhibiting. I always find it useful to ask if they are happy with the sound they're getting. Their replies (and how they relate to my perception of the sound in their room) can be quite informative.

rgds

Guy
09-28-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 8
Post ID: 1491
Reply to: 1488
Re: show conditions
"I always find it useful to ask if they are happy with the sound they're getting." That's an intelligent approach, to which must be added one's assessment of whether they're likely to speak candidly.

clark
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