Paul S wrote:

When Etta hit certain consonants, such as a "P", the sound was so punchy up and DOWN the frequency range that I could feel my fucking pant legs flapping!

I guess it’s time to talk about these amps in terms of The Loudspeakers. In truth, I thought of these amps from the first time I thought about The Loudspeakers, to the point where I “built and tested” The Loudspeakers with these amps in my head before I so much as ordered any speaker parts. I already admitted that I was grateful (rather than surprised) when the MA 9S2s proved such a good match for The Loudspeakers, because, although I was not certain of a good match, I would not have gone forward with the project at all unless I +/-  expected acceptable results. I never expected ULF from The Loudspeakers, so I still cannot speak to this in terms of the amps’ capabilities. Fair to say, I think, not many amps can get serious Music from an 18” woofer. And I suspect the MA 9S2s could do “good ULF” with the right subs. I can say that The Loudspeakers driven by these amps are at least as Musical as any “4 box” speaker system I have ever heard, meaning 2 speakers and 2 amps. “Full Range Speakers” might be a pipe dream, but these amps have allowed me to get pretty close, and it is hard for me to talk about my version of The Loudspeakers without including these amps in the discussion.>>

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Paul S>>

Paul S wrote:

I guess it’s time to talk about these amps in terms of The Loudspeakers. In truth, I thought of these amps from the first time I thought about The Loudspeakers, to the point where I “built and tested” The Loudspeakers with these amps in my head before I so much as ordered any speaker parts. I already admitted that I was grateful (rather than surprised) when the MA 9S2s proved such a good match for The Loudspeakers, because, although I was not certain of a good match, I would not have gone forward with the project at all unless I +/-  expected acceptable results. I never expected ULF from The Loudspeakers, so I still cannot speak to this in terms of the amps’ capabilities. Fair to say, I think, not many amps can get serious Music from an 18” woofer. And I suspect the MA 9S2s could do “good ULF” with the right subs. I can say that The Loudspeakers driven by these amps are at least as Musical as any “4 box” speaker system I have ever heard, meaning 2 speakers and 2 amps. “Full Range Speakers” might be a pipe dream, but these amps have allowed me to get pretty close, and it is hard for me to talk about my version of The Loudspeakers without including these amps in the discussion.>gt; > gt; Paul S>gt;

Rowuk got me re-thinking about how I arrived at the sound I now get from my system. The short answer (shorter than the Long Answer…) is that I started out trying to stay close to the sound of master tape from a nice reel-to-reel machine. Rightly or wrongly, I have always thought the best iteration of this sound was audibly less problematic than vinyl or CD sources, given ample consideration for the source sound in the first place. My approach with vinyl and CD was first to limit problems and keep CD “on par” with vinyl (and tape), then, later, I’ve tried to push for “more” Music without wrecking what I had before trying to increase the system’s range. Every component over the years was chosen to complement the other components, even if a component – such as the MA 9S2s or The Loudspeakers -  was chosen primarily to “push the envelope”. Since I did not develop The Loudspeakers myself, and I did not listen to them before I built them, I guess you could say I got lucky. Again, I did read what Troels Gravesen and others said about sound and the sound of his speakers, and I was more or less familiar with the sound of the big JBL monitors. (Again), I would not have gone forward unless I thought I had better than even odds of success. Back to the amps, I surely did consider “specs”, and I plugged the specs into my “experiential data base”, but it was use and listening that sold me. Generally speaking, the idea (of course) was to amplify the Good via The Loudspeakers without exacerbating the Bad. More Dumb Luck, I suppose, as it seems to have worked. Do the components complement each other? Sounds like it to me. I would say that problems are more subtractive than additive, and they do not swamp the Music I hear. Like I said in The Loudspeakers thread, recording techniques are clearly audible, and I consider this a result of “accurately” amplifying recordings. Fortunately, the “recording information” usually “allows ample room for” the “Musical Information”, as they are usually not the same thing in the playback I am listening to. I have turned up a few LPs where the mix and the sound I get was different enough from earlier systems that it surprised me, and not always in a good way. I am currently thinking this has to do with the way these LPs were made, vs. some fault with my playback, and I think I might “solve the problems” with cartridge SRA, once I set my mind to it. Back to Rowuk’s remarks about “tolerant” speakers, I think he is quite right, in the sense that Troels has gone way out of his way to make fairly complex crossovers as “easy” as possible for a real-world amplifier to drive through. However, I don’t think this means any amp could drive The Loudspeakers the way I want, and that’s why I chose the MA 9S2s, which I had already used to drive many complex “stacks” of vintage drivers I tested as potential center channels, and then I used them FR with my BassZillas. I can also say that with a lot of Music my BassZillas and The Loudspeakers driven by MA 9S2s are more similar than different, believe it or not, not because their differences are homogenized but because I only aimed for “more” in the first place, and I ended up close to where I hoped would. Actually, I got more than I expected, but I hate to crow.>>

Paul S

Amir, the Marantz MA 9S2s are the subject of this thread, and I chose to keep using this amp because it was consistently acceptable to me with different sources and driving vastly different speaker loads, including giant (Sound Lab A1) electrostatics. I think it saves time to know pretty well what you want in terms of sound as you “audition” gear, and one has to be careful about gear that is “impressive” on first hearing. You cite a number of component pairings, including amplifiers vs. speakers. Yes, it is hard to juggle the variables involved in a multi-driver, “FR” speaker, including the amp or amps to drive it. It seems funny to put it this way, but Romy’s pairing of DSET and massive horns is actually meant to be a sort of shortcut to optimal playback, just as my own solution is meant to be my version of a “good compromise”, in an effort to “balance” sound and system complexity. Clearly, there are simpler, cheaper solutions for anyone willing to put in the effort to think it through and work it out over time. I have mentioned several times that it is much easier to put together a system that puts out less range and power than mine does, and I think most people are well served to consider a “limited” approach, especially apartment dwellers and those with smaller listening rooms that are easier to charge. I do “get” Audio Note (and the like), and I actually “endorse” the notion, if not a particular product. In any case, it’s personal, after all. And even in cases where someone wants more power, I think it’s generally “easier” to split off LF.>>

Best regards,

Paul S

It’s been some time since I seriously considered hi-fi gear in terms other than sound qualities. But I did think broadly and specifically in terms of “current” when shopping for big amps. I have heard some bad-sounding amps that were said to have “high current capabilities”. Does this mean they do not actually deliver “high current” to/through the speakers’ circuits, or does this mean there is more to consider than just “high current”? I think useable high current is very important for driving tough speaker loads acceptably, and I also know for certain there is more to a good amp than high current capability. Close listening to serious Music will out problems, and experience helps to pinpoint problems with amps. We know going in that speakers (and crossovers) are reactive loads, and big speakers present complex problems to an amplifier, especially if one insists on one amp per stereo channel, as I have done. In hi-fi, as in Life, there’s no Free Lunch. The less you ask from your system, the more likely you are to get it cheap. The more you ask, the bigger the hassle on all fronts.>>

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Paul S>>