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Posted by Romy the Cat on
02-27-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d
Here is an interesting setup. It is nowhere in Moscow Russia. I did not hear it but it does not mean that we can’t analyze what the authored was trying to accomplish.
It is 3-way installation. Bass looks like dual Goto driver in a J-horn with 35-40Hz mouth. The horn looks like too short for it rate. Also it is not know if the Goto drivers are tunable for this specific horn. From what I heard from Goto people they do not even understand the concept of driver resonance and none of Goto systems I read about even mention the Fs of Goto drivers. So, most the Morons just load off the shelf Goto drives into whatever they use and then feel that if they pay so much for drivers than it shall not sound like crap. In contrary I do know that this approach does lead to very unsophisticated bass.
The twitter is some kind Fostex, probably 900 or 9000, which is fine.
The mid range of course is the most interesting – it is 8” Lowther loaded into a short horn. So, basically it is a direct radiator. I am know to be not a big fan of Lowther but this Moscow guy is looks like trying to do something interesting. I think he has small room and listen in very nearfield position. I made this conclusion from the way how he alight the Tweeter to MF. If you paid attrition the tweeter sits on the curve that focuses very close to the speaker. It is hard to estimate from the picture but if the Fostex has the cone on the back then we are looking at ~8 feet. This says that the playback does not need to pump pressure for 1000 sq feet room and Lowther might be not overly horrible.
As I motion before Lowther might be very good in VERY limited bandwidth and with going too low. My estimate was that it might be 700-800Hz and room is not too large. I do not know where the Moscow guy low passes his Lowther. If he goes lower then 700-800Hz then he might not listen complex music. If he does cross it there then the question how he can drive his bass horn so high? My estimate is that this type of bass horn is good for no higher than 400-500Hz. However, the Moscow guy uses his MF channels as phase plug for his bass horn, effectively extending the HF of his bass horn. This is elegant idea in my view.
Still, I think that it is a bit a half ass solution. The guy obviously have recourses, interest and desire to get the things right. To have the things done right he needs to put an extra upper bass channel above his bass mouth. He has an excellent space for it. If he introduce let say 200-800hz additional cannel then he would be able to use Lowther MUCH more sparingly at lower knee and will have MUCH better control over the room loading and now he is pretty much is a hostage of a chance.
BTW, pay attention to the wall finish – the exposed rock; this is a phenomenal room treatment. Rgs, Romy the Cat
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Posted by Romy the Cat on
02-28-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d  haralanov wrote: | | Romy, the main driver in this acoustic system has nothing to do with the funny Lowthers. It is very high class field coil speaker unit made by Oleg Rullit. The owner of the system has tried the highest class of the Feastrex line of widerange drivers - D9eIII, but he prefers the Oleg Rullit's because it better renders musical intonations. Here is a photo of the Feastrex driver in the same horn. |
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Thanks, Haralanov for the information. I did not know it but in realty it does not change anything as from pint of view system design, architecturally Lowthers, Feastrex, Feastrex and anything else 8” soft suspended direct radiators are in the very same camp. Oleg Rullit migh be “high class” but there was a lot of talk that Feastrex is head and shoulders above Lowthers. In reality it is not and although Feastrex has some advantages but it also same the same set of problems. I am not familiar with Oleg Rullit drivers, he does stimulating things on the pictures but it is very difficult to estimate what sonic consequences his efforts have. The majority of the people I have seen that use Rullit drivers are Morons in my estimation and I extend zero credibility to them. For instance the guy who made the horn for that Moscow setup, I know of him, is a very avidLowthers follower and he pitch for years to use Lowthers full range in back loaded horn and according to him there is no other way to “get sound”. as far I concern one single comment like this discredit person judgment.
I would not have any problem if the Moscow guy does use Lowthers. Lowther-like drivers might be very good if it used on very narrow band path and not going too low. It possible that Rullit’s diver can go 30Hz lower then Lowthers, so what, I still feel that a complementary upper bass channel is begging to be used in this system.
The Cat
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Posted by haralanov on
02-28-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d | Romy the Cat wrote: | | I still feel that a complementary upper bass channel is begging to be used in this system. |
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Yes, Romy, the upperbass channel is absolute mandatory. My comments were only about the particular driver, nothing more than that. The is no way he could get good upper bass with 8" driver, not to mention with a driver having so wide leather surround. He needs at least 12" driver with harder and faster suspension in order to get the fundamentals right. The best solution would be to use 2 upper bass channels, arranged symmetrically below and above his main channel. Unfortunatelly his setup does not allow such configuration...
There are a lot of aspects in this system which I don't like. In my view, the tweeter/midrange integration is absolutely compromised. First of all, the tweeter is very far away from the acoustic center of the widerange channel. This could be translated as strongly unfocused sound, because the tizzing of the supertweeter will be completely isolated by the main sound. Not to mention that the tweeter has very different sound signature within context of the speed of dynamic gradations, dispersion patterns and tone... But the most disturbing thing of all is that the tweeter is placed above the widerange channel. It is going to "pull" (psyhoacoustically) the sound at its axis, making it to sound very tiny, and considerably lowering the size of the acoustic instruments. It would be much more appropriate if the tweeter was placed below the midrange horn, allowing the sound to be integrated on the midrange axis in a way that tweeter completely disappears as a sound source as if it is non existent. It is extremely important for any acoustic system that the sound must be "pulled" by the midrange channel (not by the HF channel) and this is the only way to get really proper sound, but this is also the most difficult thing of all...
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Posted by Romy the Cat on
02-28-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d Haralanov, it had to say, I think it would be all depends how he use that MF driver. Do not forget that this MF driver, I still insist to call it Lowther has very extended HF. That is different type of HF that is coming from “cigarette filter paper”. It might be impressive for a typical “girl with banjo” but not for a complex dymick music with a lot of intermodulations. It is necessary to know where they cross the Lowther and how much Fostex tweeter hey use. It would be very different result if they cross it at 7.5K vs. 12K.
If I was owner of that system and if my objective were to use that Lowther driver then I would put an upper bass horn in use get rid that superfluous MF horn. The Rulit Lowther would be driver much more gently; the HF driver would be closer to MF center and the re-entry reflection to the got bass drive would be substantially minimized.
I do not know the town of this setup but generally Russians are a bit uptight with all those things. They do not render solutions because some kind of results lead them to it but they employ solution as a decoration of loyally and friendship to different groups. So, it would be difficult to expect from a Russian to make any design change unless he has quarrel at personal level and do not need to keeps somebody asses by using their components. Sing that I do not make any implications: I just portray what is going on common in Russia. BTW, not only in Russia, it is a common behavioral pattern for many Morons in audio….
The Cat
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Posted by oxric on
02-28-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d This gentleman's set-up makes me think very much of the one I have in mind for my new room in due course.
Whilst as Romy points out, the room might well be on the small side, it has a very high ceiling (say 4.5 m) that in my mind always presents fabulous opportunities. I remember many years ago when my listening room had such a high ceiling. It did have the most breathtaking view over Tynemouth cliffs and further out to the open expanse of the British channel, and why one would want to ruin the view with speakers might be inscrutable to some...but that's neither here nor there.
If I were in the fortunate situation of this Russian gentleman, I would move the present bass horns to the side to take care of 60-100 Hz and add an upper bass horn on the floor, that would go to 500Hz where presumably the Rullit drivers might take over up to 8KHz. This would also allow him to try the 'd'Appolito' arrangement with another pair of upper bass horns. This is what I would myself very much like to try if I had the ceiling height that he has...
As for the lower frequencies, the high ceilings give him an infinite number of possibilities, but he might try a tapped horn in the alcove in the far left corner of the room where he has applied some room treatment, or very simply two or three 18" drivers.
It looks to me as if this gentleman has only started out and is in the early stages of experimenting with his set-up but is already playing with some fairly advanced ideas, and is willing to think out of the box. Provided he has the ability to understand his system and its shortcomings, and the humility to see where it needs to be worked on (and I would hasard nothing suggests this is not the case), he may well be on his way to achieving a very nice well-balanced system. I do not like the idea of the dual Goto drivers but that seems to be the overwhelming advice coming out of of that predatory company and its dealers so the Russian fellow cannot be completely blamed for this.
If you do not mind, can someone explain the use of large tracts of foam in this set-up? I imagine it must be in order to avoid reflections on the floor and that may be quite important here given the 2m long or so distance where the bass horns 'couple' with the floor. Again I think that could have been used to good effect differently, for instance if the horns were literally lifted off the floor to ceiling height, which would also enable a much less curved section behind the horn. In this situation, it might well be the flat part of the horn becomes an asset as it enables the horns to couple to the ceiling? It would also free a large amount of floor space. That's definitely what I WOULD DO.
Regards
Rakesh
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Posted by Romy the Cat on
02-28-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d | oxric wrote: | | Whilst as Romy points out, the room might well be on the small side, it has a very high ceiling (say 4.5 m) that in my mind always presents fabulous opportunities. |
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I have a second opinion about the size of the room. My initial sentiment was that the room is small as they curved tweeter (presuming that it is time aligned). However, I just realized, looking at the second picture (side view), that the bass horn sits a good 3-4 feet from the back wall. The people who have limited space would not do it in THIS type of installation. Macondo for instance does read the back walls and this is why extending Macondo deep into room proved to be very effective. In this Moscow setup MF and HF channels are well shielded from back wall and there is no need to extend speakers from back wall. So, my presumption is that if the owner did it then he has no restriction in the room size. This however made the whole Rulit-Lowther story a bit more problematic. If the room is big and this playback would need to pump a lot of pressure into the room then the yellow drivers would be absolutely the last of what I use. I noted a amp with paid of GM70 tubes. They are in parallel or PP, I do not know, but they still a LOT of power for yellow drivers. With more power that from type 45 tube and more pressure then 95dB the yellow drivers sound not very impressive. If the room is truly big then that Lowther will die long before sound reaches the ears. I might be possible to fish something in it with 1.5K-1.7K crossover point at Lowther but good lack to make that bass hot to run too high…
The Cat
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Posted by Dominik on
02-28-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d Hi,
Here is another pic of the room:
http://www18.ocn.ne.jp/~tnk/page009.html
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Posted by Romy the Cat on
02-28-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d Interesting, according to the link the guy moved from 4 Goto drivers to Rulited Lowther and Foxtex. I wonder if he got sick to burn his Goto drivers. I also wonder what would happen if insted all of it he use the default JBL 2440.
Surly, both Goto and his custom Lowther are interesting competors but in both of cases it “feels” that a midbass channels was missing. Interesting that the Moscow guy was changing MF drivers but did not sense what he was most likely truly missing.
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Posted by haralanov on
03-01-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d
Quote
taken from here: http://www.classicaudio.ru/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=98788#p98788
| Jeen wrote: | бас- спаренные драйвера GOTO, нагруженные на 45-герцовый рупор (длина 3.6 м)
Диапазон - 50 - 200 Гц
Среднечастотный рупор (200 - 12000Гц). Динамик Руллита на подмагничивании.
Твитер Fostex T-500 AMK-II |
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Judging
by the chronology of the photos, obviously the first change in the system was
the midrange channel. It seems the guy found some sonic faults in his goto
compression midrange (and his tweeter channel too) and then changed them with a wideband quasi horn loaded driver. At
the moment of this change, the goto supertweeter is still there:
For
some unknown reasons, he later decided to change it with the sharp and
artificial sounding fostex supertweeter. What might be his motivation? Logically
appears the following question – is that Goto supertweeter so horribly sounding??
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Posted by tuga on
03-01-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d | haralanov wrote: |
Quote
taken from here: http://www.classicaudio.ru/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=98788#p98788
 Jeen wrote: | бас- спаренные драйвера GOTO, нагруженные на 45-герцовый рупор (длина 3.6 м)
Диапазон - 50 - 200 Гц
Среднечастотный рупор (200 - 12000Гц). Динамик Руллита на подмагничивании.
Твитер Fostex T-500 AMK-II |
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Judging
by the chronology of the photos, obviously the first change in the system was
the midrange channel. It seems the guy found some sonic faults in his goto
compression midrange (and his tweeter channel too) and then changed them with a wideband quasi horn loaded driver. At
the moment of this change, the goto supertweeter is still there:
For
some unknown reasons, he later decided to change it with the sharp and
artificial sounding fostex supertweeter. What might be his motivation? Logically
appears the following question – is that Goto supertweeter so horribly sounding??
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I wonder if his record collection might serve as an indication...
Cheers,
Ric
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Posted by Romy the Cat on
03-01-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d
| haralanov wrote: | For some unknown reasons, he later decided to change it with the sharp and artificial sounding fostex supertweeter. What might be his motivation? Logically appears the following question – is that Goto supertweeter so horribly sounding??
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It is very difficult to make any guess just judging the fact that photographs were changed. Those people post pictures but never talk about reasons or actual results. A few years back there was guy, I think he was from Greece or from Italy, I do not remember exactly but he was from the Mediterranian region, so he was traveling around the world, listed different playback installations, shared his views about Sound and the most important interviewed the system owners about their reasons, motivation and interpretation of results. That how the audio journalism shall be taken and his articles WERE interesting. Considering that it had absolutely no commercial exposure I found it was very educational.
So, what we have juts pictures it is very hard to say what is doing on. I am trying but without know people personally it prone to be just guessing.
I do know personally a few people from Jeen site and I am not very big fan of them. I very much do not like Jeen himself. He is an eBay intellectual who lives by cults he creates, I hate those people. Also I did caught Jeen in past on very deliberate lie. Not mistake or blinder which would be fine but very ugly falsification of facts, made very deliberate and in very revolting way. I do not like it and if I see it wipe out the persona from people whom I treat with any respect.
I do not know if the Moscow just is a part of Jeen’s circle. If yes then he can stick his horn in his own ass because he is undoubtedly as much as much idiot as Jeen is and I do not care about his results or reasons. It is possible however, that they are not close, juts live in the same city. If so then here are the options I see for the system owner move from Goto to customized Lowthers
1) The customized Lowther might have some sonic characteristics that the system owner find valuable. This is very interesting to learn but there are a few factors that I would like to bring to the table. The Jeen’s site says that the owner plays in Jazz band. It does not indicate that his built his playback to play only jazz but considering the he high-pass his Lowther at 200Hz (!!!!!) I doubt that this playback ever played anything serious or seriously. So, of the guy is listening mostly jazz then all bets about motivation are off as they are not justifiable.
2) The system owner got sick from burning the Goto upper range drivers. Got driver with super fragile VC and ultra-low mass are very vulnerable and have no power handling. I heard from a number of people that it is VERY easy to burn Goto HF drivers and I have seen as some people step away from Goto just because of this reason. There is a guy in South America, I forgot his name, he is well presented at web with all Goto system and he moved out from Goto. I read his comments at AA and Altec site where he was complaining about low power handling of Goto. This Moscow guy use 2A3 amps to drive MF, shall not be too much power from them but if you give a DC pulse to the amp’s input by changing the cables while the amps is on then will it burn Goto tweeter?
3) The system owner might have no reasons or motivation but he just following Hi-Fi fashion that Russians invent for themselves. If you look at our idiots like Jonathan Valin for instance then does his change of his speakers preference indicate anything? Of cause not as he has even no “preference” but many other sound unrelated motives why he use one or another acoustic system. The Russians do not have the sinister motivations as the US pimps do but they have their own “issuers”. Russians are very tribal creatures and they live in many ways as a collective herd. Their leaders invent for themselves some “party of interests” and then they spend enormous amount of efforts to maintain those cults and own relationship with those “party of interests”. I personally is very much individualistic and I do not like Russians for their desire to be “violently together” and fear to be independent. Russians mostly do not act or think as an individual but rather as “supported tendency”. So, it is very possible that the Moscow guy was riding in past a wave of Goto popularity. Then the prevailing wind of fashion was changed. 10 year ago a Russian audio propaganda guy sold to Russians the myth about German Natzi audio and all Russians were trading to each ashes from Auschwitz that they believe need to be applied to driver’s diaphragms in order to make it to sound better. I am very little kidding - it was absolutely the same level of idiocy. I think Rulit was riding the way of that German popularity from end of 90s, furnishing Russians with vintage German audio. Eventually he went for making his own drivers and I think nowadays he does a lot of electromagnets with old German paper and leather suspension. That is the current fashion in Russian and the playback of the Moscow guy juts reflects it. Saying all of it I do not make any presumption how good or bad it is, I just say that flowing the current fashion is not a motivation that needs to analyzed.
Anyhow, I hope the Moscow guy will come across this thread or by other means will recognize the he needs a dedicated upperbass channel for his setup. Then he will not drive his Lowthers to the horrible 200Hz and will be more realistically see the true performance of his MF driver.
Rgs, Romy the Cat
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Posted by Wojtek on
03-01-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d I'd like to point out that Fostex 500 MKII is very much not sharp and artificial sounding. If anything it's an opposite -little too syrupy , soft and round so it blends with cone mid better than beryllium tweeter. I have no first hand experience with cheaper Fostex drivers. If I can risk a guess why switch from Goto to FR drivers in MF channel I'd bring Romy's phrase "instant gratification" .Easy, non fuss, integrable sound and fullrange driver can be crossed much lower substituting missing upper bass channel with "farting trough" 8" direct radiator. Formula for Oris BD sound success
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Posted by Romy the Cat on
03-01-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d I think it is absolutely not need to discuss how Fostex tweeter sounds as it might sound like anything. Type of crossovering, type of amplification, type of electricity, type of loading, type of time alignment and the precision of time alignment might change sound of this tweeter from anything to everything. I do not particularly defend this or that tweeter but I still feel that it is not the tweeter but how one uses it. This particular case two people report it from “sharp and artificial” to “too syrupy and soft”. Sure different people might have different reference points but I tend to believe that it was just the way how different people used it in two different setups. It is very simple unwilingly to make Fostex-like tweeter to sound sharp and sharp. Unfortunately many people do.
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Posted by haralanov on
03-01-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d | Wojtek wrote: | | I'd like to point out that Fostex 500 MKII is very much not sharp and artificial sounding. If anything it's an opposite -little too syrupy , soft and round so it blends with cone mid better than beryllium tweeter. |
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Are you saying that you
compare it to a beryllium tweeter in context of midrange integration with cone
midrange driver? I think that Romy is very correct by saying that everything
depends of the reference points. In my view, the correct complementary tweeter
for any good sounding midrange (most likely extended midrange) driver, should
have the same sound characteristics as the driver itself, in order to be
absolutely invisible from the listener’s point of view (and of course IF properly
integrated). How could it be achieved if the tweeter uses completely different
topology? Have you ever had the opportunity to listen really good tweeter,
specially designed to have the same type of sound signature as let’s say 8” or
10” extended midrange driver? I mean exactly the same type of tonal
characteristics, similar transient speed, and most important of all – similar
type of sound presentation. Let me explain what I mean by saying sound
presentation. All those small metal domes have very similar type of
presentation – the feeling is that you drive very powerful sports car having
ultra small diameter tires (let’s say 2” instead of 20”). You can feel the
motor is working very hard and you can also feel that it is very powerful, but
as result the speed is very low, because of the small diameter tires. This is
exactly how I feel that Fostex super tweeter or any 1,25” metal dome tweeter
sounds. The listener hears the sound coming from a very small point, so the “audio
window” in front of him is also very small – the same as watching a movie on
the display of your mobile phone – you are able to get the image, but not to
feel the space and atmosphere around the artists and the artist themselves. If
you come to Bulgaria to demonstrate you
how a 90mm tweeter presents the sound, you will immediately feel a very big,
almost of unlimited size, audio-window in front of you and you will literally
get the feeling that you are able to jump inside the recording and to feel the
physical aspect of the sound and the original acoustics of the reproduced
material. Once you get that feeling, I’m more than sure you will no longer
state that the fostex is “little too syrupy , soft
and round".
The goal for HF
reproductions is to get extremely smooth and natural type of sound, which in
the same time has dynamic acceleration faster than the speed of light, having
that “bite” when music calls upon. This Fostex is not able to do that. Of
course it is not necessary for you or anybody else to agree with me, I’m
completely OK with that :-)
| Romy the Cat wrote: | | I think it is absolutely not need to discuss
how Fostex tweeter sounds as it might sound like anything. |
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Yes, it might sound like
anything. But I’m pretty sure you are able to recognize the sound (pretending
that you don’t see what kind of tweeter sits in front of you) of a ribbon
tweeter, or of a compression type with very hard metal dome or softer dome, horn-loaded
tweeter, cone tweeter, plasma tweeter, or of a low sensitivity cloth dome
tweeter, no matter what type of electronics have been used for the test, no
matter the crossover point, and no matter if the electricity is super-good or
just good. So we have some type of basic inherent sound, which varies to some
degree, but it could always be identified as such, judging by different sound
characteristics, including the way how the sound is radiated.
| Romy the Cat wrote: | | I tend to
believe that it was just the way how different people used it in two
different setups. It is very simple unwilingly to make Fostex-like
tweeter to sound sharp and sharp. Unfortunately many people do. |
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Although I spend a big
percentage of my efforts on tweeter/midrange integration, as I find it one of
the most important (if not the most important) aspects in any acoustic system,
I have to confess I’m one of those people. And I very much doubt there is a
person on this planet who has really succeeded to get civilized sound out of
that supertweeter, somehow avoiding its inherent sound signature.
Best regards,
Haralanov
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Posted by Wojtek on
03-02-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d I have to admit I have no idea and did not experiment with matching horn loaded tweeter to big ,direct radiating "extended range' MF channel. I'm not sure it's doable. I was speculating on the reasons why the owner of Moscow instalation switched from GOTO to fostex tweeter. Horn laded 8" is a different thing than the same driver used as a Direct Radiating unit and although I agree that while the sonic signature of MF /HF should be the same good luck finding appriopriate tweeter. My impression on fostex's sound came from substituting 500MKII with Tad ET-703 (custom leCleach horn instead of TAD's slot) in friends instalation. MF driver was 2" modern JBL neodymiun unit (I don't remember the type)in 340 Edgar Tractrix horn, crossed at 6-7kHz with most probable 2nd order .Compared to TAD fostex was soft , warm , detailed etc. Sure, I know that in well implemented installation I should not be able to tell or point the sound of a tweeter but we just did basic comparison to get a rough idea of sound of those tweeters. Harlanov , I think that owner of the instalation in question specifically choose 500MKII for it's "inherent sound signature". I've met many who love those warm ping ,ping, ping treble sounds i.e "Cain & cain fostex FR " speakers crowd. I don't see much in this setup. In original form it looked like typical "cut & paste" Goto project but either the drivers were too fragile or more likely it just sounded to too thin and light so owner switched to horn loaded cone for more pronunced upperbass and forgiving mids crossed to "wet" tweeter. I know this sound. Some even consider it "world class" .Best Regards, W
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Posted by haralanov on
08-08-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d
This is the latest version of his system. It seems that the guy has
replaced his GOTO SG146LD compression midbass drivers with these crappy USSR
made 2A9 15" cinema woofers:
More photos
here:
http://photo.qip.ru/users/yras/3916507/?mode=xlarge
I will laugh to death if these Russian hard sounding woofers really outperformed his GOTOs... :-))))
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Posted by Romy the Cat on
08-08-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d I do not know the “USSR made 2A9”. My feeling is that all USSR-made driver were crap but who knows, might be three is something did exist in there. It is hard to presume that if the guy changed from dual GOTO SG146LD to basically direct radiators with quad or Russian drivers then it is necessary mean anything. We have no idea what this guy is looking in Sound, if anything and had no idea how dual SG146LD were set and performed in that horn. The word Goto itself does not define anything and in my book use the SG146LD driver mean no provision to set proper resonance frequency. It is hard to say. To make a midbass horn to sound properly in the same room where the listen take place is very difficult, perhaps the guy was not able to get good sound out of his midbass horn, perhaps there were other reasons. Who know….
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Posted by haralanov on
08-08-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d | Romy the Cat wrote: | | We have no idea what this guy is looking in Sound |
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Yes, you are right. That's the biggest problem.
I suspect he misused his gotos (at least to some degree), because there is nothing in the sound of these 2A9 drivers that worth special attention, speaking soundwise. But as you already told - who knows for sure...
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Posted by haralanov on
08-15-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d I just found first hand information about the sound of that system and the reason for the last change:
| Yras wrote: | I listened to this system and photos were done by me.
It LOMO 2A-9 in which the coil is changed and (dome), a paper will change later.
They are softer, line and is more musical GОТО.
Very much it is pleasant to the owner of system.
GОТО sounded much more chilly and not interesting. |
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Posted by Romy the Cat on
08-15-2011
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fiogf49gjkf0d Haralanov,
I do not think that the “information” that you found is indicative of anything. If they changed coils and diaphragms on their LOMO drivers (and I presume that if they change the diaphragms then they did not keep the LOMO original suspension) then those LOMO driver have absolutely no connection to the sound of the original 2A-9 and they are in fact this own new custom drivers. They might sound as absolutely anything.
The comment that this “Yras” made do not say anything in my view about the LOMO drivers but rather about the sound that they were getting from Gotos: chilly and not interesting.
Here is a few factors need to be consider. First: Russians high-end audio people, even those who fancy themselves the most advanced, listed unspeakably crappy music and their understanding of listening cultural is mostly very barbaric. Among the people who are active on-line I would name no more then 3-5 people over the whole contrary who have cultural capacity to express thier subjective listening analyses about audio that worth paying attention. So, whoever they say I uselessly do not invest much credibility. Second: We have absolutely no idea if the midbass horns with Goto drivers that were used before were used at their best. I do not have knowledge about the SG146LD drivers and I do not know how they might be cooked in order to make them to taste “chilly”. With the driver I do know based upon the reported I might guess what might be reason for it but if I do not know the driver then all bets are off.
In the end I, in contrary to you, do not feel that moving for this Russian guy from SG146LD to customized LOMO as direct radiator is an even worth attention. If would be worth attention is the owner would clearly express what was his dissatisfaction with older configuration, what he was about to do with it. What he did and what was the results. Unfortunately most of audio people do not equipped or not accustom to do it. They just make pictures that in my mind are an indication that they are more involved in external, the façade aspect of audio.
We see, the experience that this guy went by trying the large compression drivers in the large midbass horns and then with shallow horn and quartet of 15” drivers was VERY valuable. If we is willing to make the picture of this playback and expose his listening room to public then his pictures are irrelevant crap until one hear what is in the head of the playback owner and what motivations, objectives and methods he used.
So, he went from one topology to another, something does suggest me that in 6 month you will see another change of the playback in this guy’s listening room.
The Cat
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Posted by N-set on
03-21-2013
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fiogf49gjkf0d I'm wondering how much one had to steal in the 90's to afford such a system in Russia?
Fuck him and his system.
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Posted by KLegind on
03-21-2013
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fiogf49gjkf0d To me the big green drivers in the midbass horn look like old Siemens Klangfilm or Telefunken (or other German manufacturer) 10 inch units. Maybe 12 inch... I had a pair of 8 inch Klangfilm once and they do have interesting tone across a couple of octaves. Never got around to really work with them in a setup of my choice.
They do have a high Qts factor as many (or all) of them were used in open baffle speakers. I wonder if those 4*4 speakers are used without back chamber?
I have always been interested in a green cone system where they were carefully applied but I have not seen or heard one.
The rest of the setup I can't figure out - or predict sound from.
Kris
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Posted by Wojtek on
03-21-2013
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fiogf49gjkf0d and "fucking" around. I know it's a common thing on Polish forums but better keep our small xenophobic attitudes at home. I know it's hard to be a citizen
of small , ignored banana republic with unfulfilled, unrealistic geopolitical ambitions but it's better not to let them show so obviously. Don't
get me wrong, I also abhor those filthy rich Russians with their loud presence everywhere but even more irritating are stupid Poles with
their megalomaniac ,phony and pretentious pose. Happy listening
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