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Posted by Romy the Cat on
06-26-2012
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fiogf49gjkf0d This weekend I visited a friend of my in NY who played to me his playback. I need to say that I did not care too much about his playback and visited him as I like him not his audio adventure but the Sound of his playback did surprised me. It was not what we call high-end installation. It was not only modest but it was with zero audio ambition. It was very large room. Perhaps 1000 sq feet with perhaps 30 feet ceiling. Harwood floors, glossy naked walls. It was not even pleasant to talk in the room as it was very reverberant.
A pair of mall floor standing loudspeakers, a pair of SS mono-blocks, two Linn TTs and some kind of SS preamp. I do not know the amps, the system has one huge custom made tube power amp but it blew up at the very beginning. I very much not expected to have anything resembling to good sound in that room but it was surprisingly very nice.
I was in particularly surprised with the loudspeakers that I never seen. They were perhaps 4-5 feet tall, JBL made. One huge port on back with 14” JBL driver. One MF compression drive with sound-like soft-aluminum diaphragm, loaded to the JBL sloped CD vertical horn. One time-misaligned titanium-sounding tweeter. Very modest but I need to say very nice. The friend of my told that they are out of production now but when they were available they coasted $10K.
Rgs,
Romy the Cat
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Posted by haralanov on
06-26-2012
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fiogf49gjkf0d Maybe you are talking about Array 1400 model?
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Posted by RonyWeissman on
06-26-2012
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fiogf49gjkf0d Probably the s4600 . They are replaced by the s4700, around 20k $ if those are the ones. There are very few models of the ultra high-end jbl here in france, but they are very well respected. I have never heard.
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Posted by atilsley169 on
06-27-2012
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fiogf49gjkf0d When you say it was not very high end...but that you found the sound very good....doesn't that mean you should redefine the term high end?
Also. Why can't the purchase of a $20k speaker in itself not be regarded as audio ambition?
Regards.
The Andrew.
 Romy the Cat wrote: | This weekend I visited a friend of my in NY who played to me his playback. I need to say that I did not care too much about his playback and visited him as I like him not his audio adventure but the Sound of his playback did surprised me. It was not what we call high-end installation. It was not only modest but it was with zero audio ambition. It was very large room. Perhaps 1000 sq feet with perhaps 30 feet ceiling. Harwood floors, glossy naked walls. It was not even pleasant to talk in the room as it was very reverberant.
A pair of mall floor standing loudspeakers, a pair of SS mono-blocks, two Linn TTs and some kind of SS preamp. I do not know the amps, the system has one huge custom made tube power amp but it blew up at the very beginning. I very much not expected to have anything resembling to good sound in that room but it was surprisingly very nice.
I was in particularly surprised with the loudspeakers that I never seen. They were perhaps 4-5 feet tall, JBL made. One huge port on back with 14” JBL driver. One MF compression drive with sound-like soft-aluminum diaphragm, loaded to the JBL sloped CD vertical horn. One time-misaligned titanium-sounding tweeter. Very modest but I need to say very nice. The friend of my told that they are out of production now but when they were available they coasted $10K.
Rgs,
Romy the Cat |
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Posted by Romy the Cat on
06-27-2012
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fiogf49gjkf0d atilsley169,
I would ditch your request to define term high-end. I think you might do it for yourself if the defining of the term is important to you. Your second question however is very interesting. You ask if the purchase of a $20k speaker in itself not be regarded as audio ambition? The question that you formed is of the reason why I (respectfully) did not express any interest about progress of your audio inflation. No, I do not celebrate the accuracy of my people reading skills - that is long time ago proven phenomena. I however do want to point out that you need to clear up in your head what speaker are what they used for and what motivation of audio people might have to use or do not use loudspeakers. I might give you a tip, if you would like. Try to practice audio without loudspeakers, amplifiers and the rest of “things”. If you define your yourself how to practice audio while having your power amp not even connected to the power outlets then you might discover another meaning of audio. Yes, there are people who feel that purchasing of a $20k speaker or $40K amplifier is some kind of audio ambition. For all intended purpose I do not allow them in my listening room….
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Posted by atilsley169 on
06-27-2012
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fiogf49gjkf0d | Romy the Cat wrote: | atilsley169,
I would ditch your request to define term high-end. I think you might do it for yourself if the defining of the term is important to you. Your second question however is very interesting. You ask if the purchase of a $20k speaker in itself not be regarded as audio ambition? The question that you formed is of the reason why I (respectfully) did not express any interest about progress of your audio inflation. No, I do not celebrate the accuracy of my people reading skills - that is long time ago proven phenomena. I however do want to point out that you need to clear up in your head what speaker are what they used for and what motivation of audio people might have to use or do not use loudspeakers. I might give you a tip, if you would like. Try to practice audio without loudspeakers, amplifiers and the rest of “things”. If you define your yourself how to practice audio while having your power amp not even connected to the power outlets then you might discover another meaning of audio. Yes, there are people who feel that purchasing of a $20k speaker or $40K amplifier is some kind of audio ambition. For all intended purpose I do not allow them in my listening room…. |
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I agree your sentiment re people who fall in love with equipment. I'm not drieven by brand or anything like that, just what does the product deliver.
Scenario:
Guy walks into icecream shop...and spots a new tub of icecream. He inquires of the seller:
Guy: 'Hey, what's the new icecream...I've never seen that before as I only get my icecream from the uber expensive shops.'
Seller: 'Oh this? This is the new super vanilla from JBL Dairies. Try it.'
Guy: (Tries it). 'Hey yes...this is very good. I would never have thought such an ordinary looking tub of icecream could taste so good. I really like it.'
Seller: 'Would you say the supplier has tried to achieve true 'icecream ambition'?'
Guy: "Unfortunately not...it's still not very 'high end' to me...but I did REALLY enjoy it. See you later.'
Your post had that sort of feel to it. Sometime I think we run the risk of 'being in high end so much' that we fail to see/hear a great product because of our prejudices.
The JBL you heard probably offered 98% of what audio is about....clarity, detail, presence, scale etc.
Regards
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Posted by Dominik on
07-10-2012
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fiogf49gjkf0d Jbl new Dual-Diaphragm Dual-Voice-Coil Compression driver:
http://www.jands.com.au/support/product_support/audio_technical_materials/audio_product/jbl_d2_driver
http://www.fohonline.com/current-issue/72-product-focus/6378-jbl-professionals-revolutionary-d2-dual-driver.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ9thkGH1D8&feature=related
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Posted by haralanov on
07-10-2012
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fiogf49gjkf0d Dominik, in terms of technology advancement, it seems their new driver is better than their other models. But despite this, I’m not sure their transducer engineer knows how to make the drivers to be valuable in terms of sound/tone. I’m saying that not because I want to disparage their solid know-how, but because sometimes their less advanced drivers (in terms of technology) sound better than their more advanced drivers. For example, the compression driver of Project Array 1400 loudspeaker (it is called 435Al, if I remember correctly) sounds more interesting (in many areas), compared to their much more expensive 435Be, incorporated in their K2 models. Why is that – I don’t know. Maybe the guy who design all those drivers don’t know how to use his ears (if he uses them at all!)…
Some years ago I was asked to improve the sound of these Array 1400 (discussed in this thread) speakers and I had the opportunity to play with their midrange/uppermidrage compression driver. There were two 24 Ohms resistors (wired in parallel to each other) wired in series with the driver in order to reduce its sensitivity to match with the poor 14” LF driver. I was curious to hear the sound of the driver alone, with no resistor in series – it sounded much better with the resistors being bypassed. It just sounded more correctly compared to the “improved” and much more expensive CD with beryllium diaphragm, and I’m saying that because I also had the opportunity to listen 435Be very carefully. But despite was “better”, generally it is not my type of sound, because it is too “empty” sounding with minimal tonal qualities, and despite the owner of the speakers likes its “openness”, I have to say it is kind of “closed within itself” type of openness…
BTW, I know one of the reasons why Romy liked some aspects of Array 1400’s sound – it is because the rectangular MF horns are oriented vertically (and there are many reasons why this arrangement provides better result in terms of perceived sound, because of some psychoacoustic reasons).
Best,
Peter
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Posted by Romy the Cat on
07-11-2012
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fiogf49gjkf0d Thanks, Dominik, an interesting driver and an interesting direction. JBL is probably one of the few large companies that that do something “pushy” with sound. Still, what they do and even if what they do objectively advantageous I am not sure that it might be cashed (at least as is) in the environment of high-end home installations. The demands of pro audio and high-performing home installations are very different and, as you know. Haralanov’s doubt about sound/tone are not only reasonable. I absolutely assure you that there is no even such a criteria in whole JBL design processes as “tone”, it is not even a commodity the JBL might trade. However, it does not mean the driver is not tone able – no one knows until the driver descend to the high-end audio market and will be tried in home installations by "right" people.
Rgs, the Cat
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