Rerurn to Romy the Cat's Site

Horn-Loaded Speakers
Topic: Virtual fat

Page 1 of 1 (6 items)

Posted by Romy the Cat on 09-08-2011
fiogf49gjkf0d

I have no idea what it is but it is something… Take a look:

http://cybwiz.blogspot.com/2011/09/aries-cerat-contendo-reference.html

It is 3 way horn loaded with external LF section, so far so good.  Atop then have RAAL ribbon that most likely hided in that appendix atop.  Some kind of midrange loaded into 350Hz Tractrix, which is fine. They said 4” midrange that it probably the side of the diaphragm not the exit. They clime the 118dB efficiency, this is VERY bad. I am afraid that it is BMS drivers, sad indeed.  In upperbass then have 8-inch driver loaded to look like put 100Hz horn. That is very cool as it is not our standard 36” horn but it looks like 40-45” – very bold move…. The housing of the driver is also very slick, sort of the La-horn negative opening melted with Bang & Olufsen home décor. It looks like the channels are time aligned- wish is an indication that the makers are not idiots. I wonder who are they, does anybody know about this company?

My only criticism is that I would like the MF to be in the same vertical axis – very hard to do with this midbass. I would like to have the bottom of the midbass to have a cord to cut off and to have flat bottom. It would save 4-5” and might, just might to let to put MF above. I think it still will be too high bit from 10” it might work out.

Anyhow, I think it was an interesting take.

The caT
Posted by jessie.dazzle on 09-09-2011
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://www.aries-cerat.eu/
(Curiously, the "Contendo Reference" is not listed under speakers but has it's own tab)

Seems to be primarily an amp maker looking to branch out into speakers and custom audio installations. The image of the "Contendo" looks like it was rendered from CAD data (probably using Hypershot), in which case it's not too late to chop the bottom off the mid-bass horn and get it pointing straight out instead of being angled slightly up.

Edit: I take that back; the image may still be a computer rendering but looking further at the site, I see that they actually did make at least one "Contendo". I didn't and don't get the sense that the mid-bass horn is larger than 38"...

From their site:

"The midbass horn enclosure measures 120cm in diameter "

I take that to mean that the enclosure (the egg, not the horn) measures 120cm or 47"; my guess is that they used a 115Hz (38" diameter) horn.

They do have one other speaker, the "Gladius" listed on their site; a 3-way direct radiator design. Nice looking but note the large expanse of hard, shiny material surrounding the HF driver and the pointed phase plug-like dust cap on the woofer; yes it might be intended only as decoration but it is also quite possibly used for mass-loading. It seems to be an earlier design, so we might assume they have learned some since then.

jd*
Posted by Romy the Cat on 09-09-2011
fiogf49gjkf0d

I asked Alex who got those tweeter from him and he said that it was Stavros Danos from Cyprus. So, it was the Greek guy that we have meet before on the pages of my site:

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=12129#12129

It looks like he formed a new company somewhere within the Cyprus:

http://www.aries-cerat.eu/

If you click on the 5th tab then you arrive to the “Contendo Reference” page. Let look what we have in there:

The Alex’s ribbon tweeter with amorphous core transformers and fast opening horn with continued its flare back. This is good. For claimed unparalleled performance I would like to see the “thinner” version of Alex ribbon but we do not know what MF driver they use and where they cross it. Let presume that they did the right thing for what they did optimized the tweeter to work fine with their MF.

The Mid range channel:

 “Using a highest quality compression driver, with 4’ titanium diagram  as our mid frequency reproducer ,requires nothing less than a perfect flared horn. We use a 350hz tractrix horn, o load the driver from 700 to 3000hz, and taking the flare back to 360o building the horn in our solid wood bullet shape enclosure ,we completely removed diffraction as an issue. Efficiency is 118db/W and is attenuated via a impedance matching transformer to 104db/w”

OK, I see, they use the MF up to 3K and then plug in the tweeter.  This is a big mistake in my mind as the ribbon tweeter does not do too well tonally in MF. Again, in my mind and opinion of the Cyprus folks might be different. I do not care about tonal quality of ANY ribbon and I would like ribbons to be used at the very top, over 8-9K where there is little or no tone. There is a positive side in what Cyprus guys did. With 3K of crossover point the negative aspect of sound deriving from the vertical offset of the MF will be substantially minimized and masked out by the tweeter output.

The Midbass channel as they call. I call it the Upperbass channel.

“Most horn speakers, use direct radiating drivers for midbass reproduction. We feel that anything less that a hornloaded driver would compromise the total project. Midbass is the base of the music, in all genres. In order to cover the 110 to 700hz range we use a full size round tractrix horn, loaded with a powerfull ultralight  8in driver,with a super strong motor and a total moving mass of just 13gr , giving unbelievable detailed and defined midbass . The tractrix flare also continues at 360deg  ,and is build in a massive wooden bullet shape enclosure, in order to perfectrly terminate the horn flare, so that diffraction is not an issue here as well. Efficiency is an astonishingly 115db/w and is attenuated via an impedance matching transformer to 104db/w .No direct driver is capable of delivering the sheer impact, detail  and energy and that horn delivers in an ease. The midbass horn enclosure measures 120cm in diameter “

I would question if the conical fare on the back make any indifference for Upperbass but it certainly goes alone with the entire speaker design. There is something fishy in there. If the horn it tractrix then with throat of 3-5” it will do here and there no more than 6dB gain. They claim 115dB sensitivity that means that they have 109dB driver in there. Well, it would be possible, unlikely but possible to make 8” driver that will push 109dB but it would be very upper range driver. They have 100Hz horn, it means that the primary open air resonance of their driver somewhere around 80-90Hz. The 90Hz 8” driver that is able to do 109dB shall have 20 inch excursion.  The pressure of driver is surface by excursion. If they have 8” driver that able to do 100Hz then can you imagine how far it shell excerpt in order to press 109dB. Well, at least I do not know such drivers…. It would be possible to hit that number if they have 8” driver blowing into 1” trout and super long exponential hold but it is not the case with the Cyprus speaker. Anyhow, regardless the numbers that I do not believe the fact that they went for full 42” horn and 100Hz is a good sign.

The bass module that they have – dual 15” sealed boxes with own amplification is fine. Of close I am not wild about the class D output stage but the fact that they went for own amp that meant to be used with their speaker I find is very stimulating.

I would not propose how this speaker would sound. In my estimation, even it has some things that I do not like but I sound the design is well balanced and one of the few examples of contemporary rational thinking. Considering what those Cyprus folks did in the past and some other development in the rigion it looks like Greece is becoming a new micro-epicenter of horn building jointing USA, Germany and France.

The Cat
Posted by Romy the Cat on 01-03-2020
Nine years ago, when I posted the initial post in this thread the Aries Cerat was a different company with different products.  As I understand in 2014 they changed a lot and today they have a speaker that I would like to talk a little: Aries Cerat Symphonia. Again, I never heard it, I do not recommend anybody to buy or not to buy it, I just want to observe and to comments about the directions where this horn making company went.  
 
https://ariesceratespana.com/pages/symphonia-horn-speakers/
   
Obviously, the marketing write up they presented at their site is pompous garbage to a great degree, all of the companies do it, and there is no need to blame them in it. Let try to read between the lines and to reconstruct what they were trying to do. 
 
The Tweeter. RAAL ribbon. To me it looks like standard with version. I would like to see in there more narrow ribbon. The reasons why they went for so wide ribbon is because they ether they did not want to pay for customization or because they put it on too low crossover point. They fact the they chose to load the ribbon into horns also saddest that they use low crossover point. I do not know where they cut the tweeter but I think it will be well under 10K. Generally I am not a huge fun of this configuration and I would rather to see a MD is full able to go to 10K.    
The MF channels. A 4” titanium cone compression driver. I understandable not a hug fan of titanium diaphragms. Still I do not know what the driver is. The multitap transformer before the driver is interesting but in DSET configuration kind of irrelevant. I would argue the validity of transformer before the MD driver.  Most of the people who use those speakers would drive them with SET amplification, so it will be two transformers in sequence? If you in so much need to attenuate the MF channel, you use a single amp and you do not want to use a voltage divider then why do not run MF from another tap of your output transformer of your amplifier? I do not get it. Another thing that I do not get. They use some of the La-horn profile philosophies and they are very proud that they “eliminated all possible diffractions”. To a degree it is a valid statement as Le Cléach profile indeed has less detractions. Still they did not run the proper La-horn curve and they at the very edge of the horn introduced very harsh border. It might make the hoe to look sexy but it is absolutely defeating the purpose of killing the diffractions. 
 
The mid bass. I have written tone about this type of the configurations: I very much hate yellow driver with back loaded horns. They all sound like sewer pipes and this one not exception look like.   I am not the person who make a concussion about sound by YouTube video but feel free to be my quest. 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7lxYAaJ_oo&t=614s 
 
The garbage music they play at this video has one remarkable quality.  Any single note under 100Hs sounds like the very same generic note. Tis is not the YouTube or your computer garbage sound, it is how the choked back loaded horns sound. 
 
They claim the they have Bass Horn but it is not on the picture and the description is very general. My presumption is that they have no Bass Horn but wiling to build it on demand. The choosing of the tractrix flare of 3.3 meters is kind of peculiar but I do not think they know what they are writing as they did not build it yet.  
 
How what I do like in the new Aries Cerat. The time-alignment and constant group delay filters.  Just perfect. Only this should elevate the Aries Cerat over all competitors. The integration of the front-fairing yellow driver with horns is very interesting concept. Some of the yellow drivers properly used and properly drive and with a limited range can be incredibly interesting as they have transient characteristics like no tomorrow. I do not know HOW Aries Cerat did it but I find the direction is lucrative. The MF they mostly like use at 350Hz and the midbass under it. I would like to have a good yellow driver at let say from 700-800Hz to fairing up along with MF horn where yellow driver injects transient but horn with compression driver overrides the dynamics. Of course, to have this configuration you will the yellow driver and MF horn with a compression driver to be positioned one above the other, not the way how Aries Cerat did. Here is where all conversations about the advantage of the Le Cléach profile ends… Anyhow, this is the whole other subject….
Posted by rowuk on 01-04-2020
They showed this speaker at the Munich High End Show last year. They did not talk about the tweeter crossover frequency. The yellow cone Fostex driver is used from the low frequency limit (they claim 32 Hz) to 250 Hz. The back loaded horn is 3.3 meters long. Aries Cerat does have a MUCH bigger separate LF horn - the Erevus S.
Posted by Romy the Cat on 01-05-2020
I think that I extended too much credit to them. They were saying about different midbass and bass horns and I was under impression that they do not let their yellow driver back loaded horn to run all the way down. To use Foxtex with no high pass filter is like to pee during a hurricane against wind. To punch that driver bellows the horn rate is literally suicidal for sound.  The midbass horn looks like having 100Hz mouth, regardless the horn length, which is irrelevant parameter.  To make the yellow driver to push that 100Hz hoe lower is the summit of stupidity and I am very surprised how the people who apparently hear the benefits of phase-constant filtration do not hear that their horn sound like toilet belching. I still feel that it is a very interesting idea to have a yellow driver to be incorporated into a horn stuck. Certainly it should not be done in the way how Aries Cerat did it.

Page 1 of 1 (6 items)