A guy from DIYAudio posted information about his project:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/189377-5-way-project-tapped-bass-mids-tweeter-big-boy-system.html

I the idea behind his endeavor and it sounds to me as he used right reasons to get where he is. As a criticism I would point out that his upperbass horn a bit underperform as it has too large through. To do it smaller would lead to longer upperbass horn and more complexity with mount it under MF horn. However, if you look at the size of the MF horn then it is too big for THIS configuration as his upperbass and the channels above will cover sub 1000Hz very nicely. So, instead of 300Hz MF horn I would put a smaller horn, that would let the upperbass to be longer, with covering the MF.

All together is very good setup. If he uses good drivers (I do not know his drivers) then it have a potential to sound very good. Everything is time-aligned (or has a potential to be), there is no typical Goto stupidity – wonderful. I feel that my efforts are not wasted.

Another thing is purely appearance. The tweeter arm I would like to be made not diagonal but horizontal, but it is the matter of taste….

It is interesting how the trapped horn sound in his situation ss it needs to run all the way up, not to mention to be a trapped horn….

BTW, if the guy used Tannoy GRF and with proper driver (not the contemporary Tannoy crap) then I wonder how much time it will take for him to reinvent my Injection idea….

Yes, Markus, thanks. It is a bit too obvious that Speedysteve7 is not a typical DIYAudio moron. As the evidence: pay attention the Speedysteve7 posted information about his playback and has no following. In contrary of him installation would be 20 times more idiotic then the DIYAudio’s idiots would avalanche the thread it with their “thinking”.

Again, the Speedysteve7’s project is another evidence that horns maker shall stop to offer to market individual horns but rather to offer individual horn in respect of pre-thought combination of the horns.

Another thing: the tapped horns that look like getting popularity nowadays need to be revised to be able to work confidently up to 100Hz to be able to compliment the sub 36” upperbass horns. I do not use the tapped horns and I do not know how they sound but somebody who do need look into it.

I do not like the idea of the conical horns, in fact I am against them but if Speedysteve7 started with a conical horn then I do like that he stick with them across all channels. If he found a good location for tweeter then it will be very good. I do not like the tweeter sifting on the side – the lobbing between MF and tweeter is too damaging in this configuration. Again, cutting the size of MF horn would let a tweeter to be inserter between the channels. To have it time-aligned will be pain in ass as it will be too much behind. Straggling with it Speedysteve7 might reinvent my Water Drop idea – a toll and harrow ribbon with 20 degree of vertical firing range…

Speedysteve, posted the side view of his installation.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/189377-5-way-project-tapped-bass-mids-tweeter-big-boy-system-3.html#post2581399

It is a bit more problematic. The angled axes of the horn are a bug no-no in this type of configurations.  Also, horns shall not live at back wall. He needs to extend them at least 2-3 feet forward into the room. The idea that Speedysteve and his friend suggested to flip the phase of one of the channel “because sounds better” is absolutely ridicules. In fact looking at the some positive reaction of the people who hear the Speedysteve playback it some technical moment that are showing up I think I can quite accurately predict how Speedysteve’s installation sounds, regardless that drivers he uses. All that I can say that he will face some problem and it will take for him for a while to recognize and to understand the problems.

Coco, reviewing what Steve do I am not impressed with the direction he is doing now. The initial move with 5-way configurations was very good but not is the more delicate part start – to make all of it to sound right. A few comments that he and the people surround him had is making me to fee that they do not have right mind set to navigate this project to something more then 5-way configurations.

About the angle of the horns. I do not know how long the Steve room but since he have horn sitting in the very end then I presume that the room is not long and the listening spot is let say 8-10 feet away. From thins distance and with those horns I do not believe in such a thing as time-alignment. I fought with idiotic idea of angling horns for a long time.  Here is what I wrote 10 years ago:

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/15/6349.html

The crossover phase is absolutely irrelevant to the order of the filter. It is kind of funny that he even was listening it with incorrectly set channel phase. Still, it is not Moronity but ignorance – with is not a big deal….

browellm from hifiwigwam wrote:

"not your typical DIY moron". High praise indeed from Romy there…

OK, I would like to make a commentary on the subject. I know that people who love to chop wood at DIYAudio site would consider this comment of my as the waste of their readable efforts but I consider whatever they do in audio is a waste of efforts. In fact I do consider the following comment is superbly important and if somebody does not feel it then it is too premature for him/her to read my site.

I meant to post it at hifiwigwam.com forum but then it came to me that I was banded from it a year or two back.  I was discussing something that I do not remember what and it happened that I expressed the position that contradicted a view of a guy who happened to be moderator in there.  He sent me a lengthy email with demand to behave polite toward to moderators of the site, which very obviously triggered my reply with advice to him to go fuck himself along with his site, his mother and whatever he represents.  The game is over; I am too much pro to play THAT game…

Still, I think that the even with Speedysteve7’s installation is too valuable and to illustrative to pass on the oportunety...

 First of all it has to be absolutely clear that whatever I will be expressing about Speedysteve has absolutely nothing to do with personal attacks (as many idiots would perceive) or with Speedysteve7 himself.  I do not know the person and target of my attention is not him but rather the abstract owner of Speedysteve7’s playback.

The “browellm” from hifiwigwam site pointed out that I found the Speedysteve7’s progress very positive and I do. I do like a lot many of the design ideas that Speedysteve7 employed. However, in audio we do not render the design ideas but shape re-birth of Sound.  Can I make presumption how the Speedysteve7 installation sound now? Unfortunately I can and I can do it without even knowing the drivers, amplifier of filters Speedysteve7 used.

You see, assembling of playback is not only to have “building plans”. The Morons from DIYAudio are running to get from each other the “building plans” or “schematic diagram”  of some kind of blueprint that would allow them do not invest own mind and do not even understand what and why they about to do. It is not surprise that most of the DIYAudio-level solutions in fact no more than celebration of Cargo Cult. The real results do not come from following any kid of methodology or blueprint but by honest recognition of actual results, interpretation the results in context of own objectives and consequentially navigating the actions in accordance with this interpretation, which ironically is kind of my “methodology”.

So, as Speedysteve built the bone of his playback, now his face a task to make this playback to sound properly. That , in a contrary to cutting wood and posting at forums require sensibility, the recognition of result and reacting upon them. In this – in listening sensibility – I very much deny credit to Speedysteve and without it (not my credit but his listening sensibility) the sound from Speedysteve will be very easily recognizable and predictable, even if he used the driver with Princess Diana skin instead of diaphragms…

So what turned me off in the entire Speedysteve project? This is your homework to figure out, the readers.

Romy the Cat wrote:

So what turned me off in the entire Speedysteve project? This is your homework to figure out, the readers. Rgs, Romy the Cat

serenechaos wrote:

I think Romy's just jealous of all those conical horns, as endorsed by "he who shall not be named..."   (sorry, to me, they're the distraction when looking @ this installation.  I just keep thinking how colored every conical horn I've heard is, like a cheerleader's megaphone,and how much work was already done, setting the foundation of the system, but no changes will alleviate that intrinsic sound...)

I went to see what Speedysteve7 does. I did not read the text. I just glanced at the text and seen the mentioning of multisampling with digital amps, mentioning of digital crossover. All of it and the most important the rock-end-roll crap the he plays in that room makes all his playback efforts no different than to applying make up to a corpse in order to look it more alive. Still, I decided to mention the Speedysteve7 progress as still there is something in what he does educational for others:

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?54198-5-Way-horn-project-big-boy-system!/page16

He did not BS himself like other heroes do but measure the responses of individual channels and groups of the channels. I did not look close what  and how he did it, I am sure that he will not interpret the results in the way I would agree but the fact the he was at least trying to do it is a good sign.  The only playback that do not require any measurements are playback with Goto drivers as the green color of the Goto magnets self-equalize the waves in a room…

 It looks like he got the clue presumably from my post above, cut his MF horn and placed the tweeter in correct location. This is very right move. For this, what I call Macondo configuration, this is the ONLY location where tweeter might sit. By cutting the MF horn he got a bit more upper knee extension from MF and less beaming. He for sure need to move the MF horn a good 1 feet down and to get rid of that horizontal shelf in front of the MF horn, In fact the hole horns assembly needs to be moved 3 feet forward as the tweeter picks up the side wall of the tapped horn but this is a whole another story… The glossy pictures on the location of the first reflection I guess work well with class T amps…

IslandPink wrote:

Do you favour the tweeter horn to be placed at the top, above the mid/HF horn , or in this situation place the tweeter between the bass/mid horn and the Mid/HF horn ? To clarify - Bass/mid is a rectangular Tractrix with about 75x50cm mouth , driven by Fane or B&C . This will be resting on the floor . Mid/HF is a GPA 288H on Azura 425Hz Tweeter a B&C DE35 . Hence the Azura is approx at ear level if just mounted above the bass/mid horn . I can evaluate both options , but advice would be interesting .

Generally the position of the tweeter above MF is preferable. Your tweeter is not a tweeter of narrow vertical dispersion and it needs some room to breathe if it sits between midbass and MF. This need a space for tweeter will put MF too high in relation to eyes level.

However, there are many variables that can moderate this generality. For instance if your MF roll of very soon and you cross HF very low then the output from HF become more identifiable. With GPA 288H in fast opening horn you shall be able to get good 12K-13K, 10K-12K with toe-off. It means that that your tweeter you will put somewhere at 12K-13K, most likely with 2+ order, it means that it’s location will be little identifiable. So, the location of MF shall be your primary concern not the HF.

There is another reason you need to consider. If HF sits above HF then you have only the ridge of MF that fractures the HF dispersion. If your HF is between MF and Upperbass then the HF waves battle two ridges of the horns.

Again, there are a lot of other variables to consider – the proximity of your sealing, what you have on sealing, the altitude of your listening position, the type of the room you have and many others. I still would keep tweeter above. The more free space you have around tweeter the better…

It looks like my “friend” from UK turned straight and made a frame for him horns:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/189377-5-way-project-tapped-bass-mids-tweeter-big-boy-system-7.html#post2831521

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?54198-5-Way-horn-project-big-boy-system!&p=1149312&viewfull=1#post1149312

He converted his experiments to the only one possible configuration I insisted a few months back and made looks like a metal welded frame.  That is already something more interesting. Let analyze what is going on in there.

The bigger problem I recognize is that he revered MF and HF channels and does not understand it yet. It will come to him sooner or later as there are VERY MANY REASONS why in this configuration HF shall be above MF.

The frame itself is fine but I do not like the way how he hands the channels from frame’s horizontal beams. It is not that I do not like it but it is fundamentally wrong. You see what you suspend the channels on those straps then you have absolutely no ways to fixate then in space in firm position. If your MF channel will rotate for a few fractions of degree then you are out of time alignment. So, what is the purpose of that frame?

Also, as you can see at some other posts he had begun to add the round terminator to horns mouths. No one argue with that but the whole idea of conical horns flasher in toilet right the way, how it shall be. I do not think that he has in this installation room to do La Horns but it is his business…

I did not read the threads in there and I do not know what MF/HF drivers he use and where he cross them. However, based upon my uselessly very accurate intuition I feel that he crosses his HF very low and he needs to jack it up. Something suggests me that in couple months it will be exactly what he will be doing.

The “speedysteve” converted his acoustic system to something more reflecting sensible design:

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?54198-5-Way-horn-project-big-boy-system!&p=1159200&viewfull=1#post1159200

As the result it turned out to be a lucid system. For sure I do not know the drivers and the crossovers that require some finer undersign of what playback does with sound.  Speedysteve did not indicate that he was “getting” but the time goes by and people grow, who know, where he will end up. A properly performing playback can do serious advance in person understanding of Sound.

There is on interesting subject in the speedysteve case and I would like to pay attention to it. Speedysteve added to his conical horns the mouth terminator, similar to La-horns. Speedysteve reports positive results and it very much might be the case as the edge terminator of the standard conical horns is a reticular crap, particularly for HF horns. This all bring the questions: what would be if Speedysteve instead of buying into the stupid propaganda of conical horns makers would use in his installation the horns that have proper edge termination to begin with?

i_should_coco wrote:

I don't think Steve "bought into" the conical propaganda, more that it is easier for him to make conical horns and get a system up and running. So this is by no means finished. We have discussed him trying some different profiles (Le Cleac'h) for the midrange horns and he is happy to try this. Expect some experiments with this shortly, starting with the upper mid horns.

I got today an email from the site visitor with a link to some kind of UK show, look like DIY bash show…

Our friend SpeedySteve went with his acoustic system to the show. Here is the link and in the next page/s you can see his and other feedback and him cutting the upperbass horn to pass it through the door.

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?67089-Scalford-2012-photos&highlight=speedy

What can I say? It looks like he and his associates do not target any commercial interest and they went there just to show off Sound. If it is so then I applaud to it. I certainly like that that the upperbass horn lost it’s La‑Horn negative opening.  The lower MF horn that SpeedySteve has atop has to lose it too. The negative opening works only for upper MF horns, no matter what Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h pitch to his gullible but mostly stupid followers. Somewhere (follow the link that I posted before in the thread) SpeedySteve wrote that as soon he added the negative opening to the peripheral of him upperbass horn he had… much fuller and deeper midbass. When people make comment like this they are at risk to be permanently declared Morons, anyhow I was laughing to hear it.  Nevertheless, it looks like the upperbass horn dos not have that crap on it’s edge and this is a good sign. When the upperbass horn will turn to parabola opening it will be even more fun…

The horn are properly installed in the room in my view but at the very first picture you can see that the lower midrange horn is aligned to curve that meant for much closer listening distance. It is possible that SpeedySteve did not reset the time alignment for larger room, it is understandable but unfortunate.

Also, if you read his comment about his sound on the show then you see that he much prefer the sound in his room at home. From what I know from the picture his home room is 39592 times less interesting sonically than the large room at the show, I mean for the topology of his speakers. So, why SpeedySteve prefer sound at his home? Because in much larger and much different room at the show the configuration of his acoustic system needs to be change and adjusted for the sound of hew acoustic environment. In the larger room he lost of him upperbass from flat horns and his taped horns most likely did not go to 150Hz well enough. There are many changes that might took place and I do not think that SpeedySteve dealt with them.

He still is doing something and I do not know what and why.

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?54198-5-Way-horn-project-big-boy-system!&p=1627923&viewfull=1#post1627923

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?54198-5-Way-horn-project-big-boy-system!&p=1627744&viewfull=1#post1627744

Well, it might be better hobby then to build a toy rail-road in basement. Still, something suggests me that during my trip to UK in the end of this month I will not be asking Speedysteve to share with me his sound.